Threat ISSUE (guardian)

When I see the 30/50/50 people complaining of threat issues Im pretty certain those are full 31 Immortal Juggs. And yes they have a problem in where it requires them to work much harder than the other two tanks have to, to maintain threat. And generally lose it.

Most Hybrids 17/22/2 spec's have less of a threat issue because they are doing more DPS (to include more mitigation - not related to threat but better than Immortal). I personally leveled as a 31 Immortal Jugg and tanked in the early days of EV being the only Op. Even back then always felt like I had to be ontop of my game to maintain. Then the light bulb came on when someone showed me the way thru the hybrid. Do I think we as tanks should have to do this??? No... Is it right? Nope, Will EA fix it??? Doubtful they seem to think they fixed it the last time the buffed the "Threat Gen" of Full Immortal... In reality it just made things worse, and slightly improved a small AoE threat gen.

I have been tanking as Hybrid now since Summer 2012 (dont recall when I actually made the switch) but I instantly noticed the improved usefulness and never looked back, I constantly watch Immortals who come tank and see the same things happening to me prior. The minute I help them setup the Hybrid its smooth sailing from Immortal. That doesn't mean they get to kick back and relax they still have to be on point where the other 2 classes have a slightly easier time maintaining said threat (due to their DPS being 100-200dps higher on average than an equally equipped Jugg)

But as that stands, we have been perfectly capable of completing all content in game currently (PVE) with a Jugg Tank (myself) to include other Jugg Tanks. But we generally operate with mixed tanks, with the occasional both being Juggs/Sins/PTs. Everything is achievable, tactics may need adjusted to accommodate but its all doable.

So yes I can validate some of your complaints (the Immortal 31 tree needs to get a proper re-tooling) Perhaps incorporate the Vengeance talents that we're enjoying (4% Across the board flat damage reduction vs bogus 4% shield chance (keyword CHANCE!).

But I as said if others can complete the same content on their Juggs I think some of it may lie within the operator skill and gear combo. Usually skill over the gear to a degree as well.

All we can do is hope Bioware makes some legitimate and effective changes - I won't be holding my breath though so get used to Hybrid :P

Do you have a link to your hybrid build? As I near 50 on my Guardian tank that I spec full 31 defense, I am also starting to have a lot of issues keeping threat off of dps classes myself.

I too would be interested in your hybrid build. I have a Defense 31 Guardian and haven't had issues with threat until HM EC with my commandos going balls to the walls on Stormcaller.

Don't expect miracles from the Hybrid build imo. I've tried it the snap threat is crap (Backhand and Crushing Blow are at least good for this) and the Rage generation is gimped as well. But who knows maybe it will work for you people

Here is what I use currently for gear on that toon to include the build at AMR. You can see the skill tree listed as 17/22/2, also I've gotten all the relevant Datacrons. If you click the Wishlist you will also see my full 63 (aspiring to get build). I've got all 3 tanks and all 3 healers so I see all aspects. I enjoy my Jugg it was my first tank call me crazy I know, but I enjoy the challenge it and the play style presents because its not for everyone IMO gotta be dedicated lol.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...a-9c0e27092027

Good luck and if your on JC feel free to message me.

The one thing I will agree with you is the Rage Generation is not the same but it also is close management so if you just maintain the rotation you should have no rage issues whatsoever. I would use backhand and crushing blow and get pulled off of for days.

I'm at work so I'm not good for memory but I'll try and lookup the skill and post the opener/rotation for the hybrid. Dont forget better mitigation and better DPS ;P wins over the 2 fake skills in Immortal that are suppose to be high threat...

I've currently only got two tanks, an Assassin and a Juggernaut. Leveling the Juggernaut after my Assassin I was surprised at how much less effective the two high threat abilities are on the Juggernaut. Wither and Discharge are both on a low cooldown, 7.5 and 15 second respectively. Whereas for the juggernaut Crushing Blow is on a 15s cooldown, which is the same as Discharge, though it requires 5 stacks to be useful as AOE; but the real problem is that Backhand is on a 60s timer. What good is a high threat ability if it's just a long cooldown stun?

Hybrid Jugg/Guard.
This is my (18/23/0) build.

- You get +3% def from Retaliation/Riposte, and about 3-4k absorbed damage from Force Scream/Blade Storm + set bonus (this is still debated which equations blade storm uses, but it is believed 3-4k absorbed).
- Use Revenge/Courage on Force Scream/Blade Storm and always use when up: Force Scream/Blade Storm, Smash/Force Sweep, Sundering Assualt/Sundering Strike, Ravage/Master Strike. If you are doing it right all those attacks will be free (~1 Rage for Force Scream).
- Then use extra Rage/Focus on Sweeping Slash (even if 1 target), this will help you build up threat. (Obviously use Rage on under 30% ability - Viscious Throw?).
- Never start off with a taunt, try and get your rotation so you only have to taunt when DPS do high burst and pull off you (and obviously taunt on tank swaps).

My Guardian is in all 63's (still need implants and earpieces tho) and has high End Armorings/Mods but high Stat Enhancements (High Shield). End result with exo fortitude stim: 27k HP, 54% armor, 33 Def, 48.5 Shield, 48 Abosrb.

(I've cleared 3/4 NiM EC)

Ok this is easier to explain vocally than typed because there are variables (you'll know what/when if your a good Jugg) but here goes. Example of a boss fight in hybrid spec I use. Key thing to remember as mentioned your Rage is slow generated and you have to keep more of an eye on your abilities but you should never be in trouble or below to where you can't fire off key shots like Force Scream/Retaliate/Vicious Throw (when below 30% on boss)

OPEN:
Saber Throw
Force Charge
Force Scream
Smash
Retaliate (if up at any point)
Sunder Armor x3
Ravage

MAINTAIN:
Sunder Armor (to keep 5 stacks of debuff and to build rage as necessary off cooldown)
Assault (another rage builder if Sunder is off, use as needed)
Smash (keep it on cooldown good damage and threat creator this is free!)
Retaliate - (when procs so get added Defense)
Force Scream - (time it right to avoid big hits or just keep it on cooldown, but I try to keep it as an anticipation defense as much as I can)
Vicious Slash - As Rage permits occasionally

That's the basics... Now obviously you'll find when/where to work in some others like your cooldowns/taunts. The only time I would call a hairy situation is generally on the opening fights where I might have to taunt just to place myself above the pack after opener is done and dps went full tilt requiring me to hit the taunt. But after that its usually smooth sailing just remember to keep proactive with your rotations and react as necessary which shouldn't happen unless your DPS is hitting some serious CRIT streaks and not dumping threat when they should be to work as that team effort.

Keep in mind also its not just you out there your DPS has to be smart with their threat dumps and you with your guards/taunts.

Our general raid makeup is as follows. This isn't an all the time thing either, as we're a vary dynamic group with several capable alts that we constantly swap roles/positions to keep people from getting stale/bored with a particular role/no shows etc.

Jugg Tank
Sin Tank
Sorc Heal x 2 or Sorc Heal and Merc/Op
2 Marauders or 1 Mara 1 PT (Guards generally are on our MDPS folks but adjust as necessary to your group makeup)
2 Mercs or 1 Merc 1 Sniper

Exactly why its not a viable tank strat... Its not of constant utility like the hybrid is. Like I said I agree that 31 Immortal Juggs need work, but right now the viable option or call it our own fix... Go Hybrid (its free to respec if your a payer).