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Tanking Stat Weights


Asavrede's Avatar


Asavrede
01.19.2013 , 10:38 AM | #81
Compared to MorningMusume's spreadsheet, the value of defense rating seems underestimated in your calculations, at least for powertech. I'm not sure what assumtions might differ, but for a 1724 stat budget, my ideal values according to the spreadsheet are 408 // 690 // 626 (def // shield // abs) - quite a lot higher def than your values.

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
01.19.2013 , 02:00 PM | #82
i have found that others do not take accuracy of the boss into account. i assume a 50/50 split between 100% and 90% accuracy attacks from the boss. this will affect the stat weights because it is like having an extra 10% defense when you are hit with 90% accuracy attacks.

TripleBacon's Avatar


TripleBacon
01.19.2013 , 05:09 PM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
To explain this, it's first necessary to understand one of the really wonky aspects of gearing up in TOR: the variable value of shield and absorb. Defense has a relatively static value: each percent of Defense chance you get provides 1% damage mitigation against M/R attacks. Shield and Absorb aren't the same. Since Shield chance represents the chance that you have to reduce the incoming damage of an attack by the amount of your Shield Absorb, the performance of a relative improvement is a variable quantity: 1% additional shield chance whenever you've got an absorb of 30% represents only a .3% reduction in incoming damage whereas, with 70% absorb, it would equate to a .7% reduction in incoming damage.

As such, while Defense remains largely static in value, Shield and Absorb vary based upon their relevant listed percentages. Since the listed percentages are a function of your static talent bonuses combined with your gearing but DR only affects gearing, you need a lot of bonuses from talents to shield and absorb to make stacking Shield and Absorb valuable: without the native bonuses to Shield and Absorb, it's not really possible to get to the point where stacking Shield and Absorb to appreciable extents (re: more than just the token quantity that you see listed in the itemization budgets here) is truly effective thanks to diminishing returns. As such, since the Defense tree has a single, highly anemic Shield talent, no absorb talents, but a friggin' *ton* of Defense from talents (3% from Single Saber Mastery, 6% from Guard Stance, 3% from Blade Barricade), Shield and Absorb are very low value which makes Defense very high value. For comparison, Shadows get 20% additional Shield chance and 4% additional Absorb (along with 6% Defense chance) and Vanguards get 8% additional Shield chance and 12% additional Absorb (with only 2% additional Defense).
Thanks. That's very helpful.

WooduckAUS's Avatar


WooduckAUS
02.01.2013 , 07:16 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Since Defense is so valuable for a Guardian tank, your BiS is generally 2 EWH passive Defense relics. No tank should *ever* use the EWH Shield relics: you get all the Shield rating you need on your gear naturally. If you undercut your Absorb rating a bit (some of the Guardians I know do this to get higher Defense, which generally pays out well because of Guardian's low Shield chance), you can get an excellent payout from the DG absorb proc relic.
Ok, just had a quick read through this post, looking for an answer to my hybrid Guardian tank. Couldn't find exact answers to my specific questions. So excuse me if i missed something.

Just started gearing my guardian tank up. He won't be my main, but would like a decent build that will help my healers out. Trying to balance out now in 63's. Now the OP has optimal for my hybrid guardian tank but these are not achievable due to so much shield stacked on my ears/implants and enhancements.

I see 2 options. If there is a better one, i'm all ears....

Lowering defense to stack more absorb to balance out the amount of shield i have no choice but to stack.....
750/600/500 distribution with 2 defense wh relics (won't be pvp'n much unless i have too..)

OR

Leave defense high, shield high and then use a proc absorb dg relic to help compensate the low absorb i have.....
850/600/300 with a DG absorb proc relic + wh defense relic.

The stat budgets are approximates based around the unavoidable shield stat budget. Any ideas on the best, all round, way to approach this? Not looking for perfect but more a quick and easy fix to get me through the content and help the healers. Already tanked to Kephess in EC NiM in a lot less gear then this, so this is just to help my healers out.

This was a great post to read and thanks in advance for any answers.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.01.2013 , 08:37 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by WooduckAUS View Post
Leave defense high, shield high and then use a proc absorb dg relic to help compensate the low absorb i have.....
850/600/300 with a DG absorb proc relic + wh defense relic.
This is your best option. Defense has a much smoother DR curve than either Absorb or Shield (I believe this is because Abs and Shield are higher percent value; they need a harsher DR curve to make up for the comparative improvements). Even accounting for the natural overkill in Shield, you're still better off dumping more Defense than you are trying to get more Absorb to justify it; there just aren't the native bonuses to the values in spec to make it effective.
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WooduckAUS's Avatar


WooduckAUS
02.01.2013 , 10:33 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
This is your best option. Defense has a much smoother DR curve than either Absorb or Shield (I believe this is because Abs and Shield are higher percent value; they need a harsher DR curve to make up for the comparative improvements). Even accounting for the natural overkill in Shield, you're still better off dumping more Defense than you are trying to get more Absorb to justify it; there just aren't the native bonuses to the values in spec to make it effective.
Thanks Kitru. This is what i was thinking, but i have been hearing a lot of hate about the proc absorb relics so was not sure. I appreciate the answer.

sankalp's Avatar


sankalp
02.04.2013 , 08:33 PM | #87
just to throw a spanner into the works.

1800 rating for assasins states

538 621 641 for def shield abs

I think 502 639 659 gives -0.09% damage taken. (-2 def aug +1 shield +1 abs augment)

Can someone confirm or deny this please.

sithgreyguard's Avatar


sithgreyguard
02.07.2013 , 04:30 AM | #88
i only a slight difference in damage. so being full jugg is ok for higher ops?

Marb's Avatar


Marb
02.07.2013 , 07:52 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by sithgreyguard View Post
i only a slight difference in damage. so being full jugg is ok for higher ops?
Full Immortal/Defence is viable. Your actual dps is lower, but your threat modifiers on your abilities are higher to make up for it.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.07.2013 , 10:57 AM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by Marb View Post
Full Immortal/Defence is viable. Your actual dps is lower, but your threat modifiers on your abilities are higher to make up for it.
The actual threat generation and mitigation are lower as well. It's not just "lower damage, same threat and everything else"; the hybrid is generally considered superior mainly because it has generally been shown to *be* superior, as long as you've got the chops to play it.

Of course, all that said, full Defense *is* fully viable: you'll take *slightly* more damage and generate a fair bit less threat (which you can solve by taunt fluffing like most Guardians are forced to do anyway), but you'll still be fine.
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