Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Please Remove Tank, DPS and Heal

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Please Remove Tank, DPS and Heal

Lt_icer's Avatar


Lt_icer
01.30.2013 , 05:25 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
The problem isn't the dedicated roles. The problem is that there are so few of them.
CC isn't a dedicated role anymore.
Buffing and debuffing haven't been dedicated roles for ages either.

And let's take hybrids. That's an even bigger no-no these days. Tank trees hardly synergize with DPS trees, and the same applies to the healing trees: they have very little synergy with the DPS trees as well. I know, it IS hard to make a game where all kinds of hybrid specs can synergize properly without unlocking overpowered combinations, but it seems like hybrid synergies are left out almost completely because of fear for that.

Now some classes can switch their stance into one matching another role. But that's a rather empty ability:
Switching to DPS stance as a tank doesn't improve your DPS much, since you lack the talented abilities and bonusses that really open up your potential to DPS. You might as well stay in your tank stance for the extra survivability and so you can immediately take over incase the main tank dies.
And switching to tank stance as a DPS? Good luck with that as well.

Same for the healers: they can deal some respectable damage, but it's still not as much as a dedicated DPS.
While a DPS trying to heal will suffer a similar fate: it works, to a certain degree.

For most storymode flashpoints, this isn't an issue. A DPS who put a few spare points into the tank tree can tank most storymode flashpoints, and a healer who put a few spare points into the healing tree can heal most storymode flashpoints. But for False Emperor and upward (hardmodes, operations), that's no longer the case: you'll want to be properly specced and geared for your role, or you simply won't make it. The mechanics of the content start to require specific abilities, specific procs, specific buffs, specific shortened cooldowns to keep up the pace.

So say goodbye to the funspecs at lvl 50. Though those might still work in PvP, where the rules are different and the enemies' expectations of your spec and style matter more than what your spec and style actually is.
Not exactly. you can easily get through most HM fps without a tank or specialzed healer. Just some knowledge of the fight and gear is all you need. HM LI is probably the exception where you need the tank and healer to get through.

To OP
I think you dont know what everyone means, as everyone i know and majority of players will disagree with you

paowee's Avatar


paowee
01.30.2013 , 05:30 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetsunz View Post
Its,..2013

Recommendation:
1. Give everyone a natural heal buff over time duration
2. Give everyone heavy armor
3. Give everyone an equal amount of dps
4. Get rid of need and pass and make all loot drop particular to your class and automatically go into your inventory

If you disagree with this post....see the thread titled....Don't Get Discouraged by Jerks in Pug's, FP's and Op's. I am offering a solution to eliminate jerks in mmo's,..well no way to totally eliminate jerks but you get the idea
I think you should go and try out GW2.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

IBJammin's Avatar


IBJammin
01.30.2013 , 05:32 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by FreePrometheus View Post
I'm not into PVP much at all. So generally these roles arent much of a consideration for me. However, i can see the need for them. They give, in theory, a clear idea of what you should be doing in a fight. They allow people to take on the role. Its also stops people complaining about never being able to do the other guys job in a battle. If you are a healer, you heal and help when necesary. And so on... They are not old, they are tried and trusted methods of giving people a purpose in a battle. If you just have everyone pilling in you are just hack and slashing and hoping for the best. There is no tactics.

Tank, DPS, Healers. Even as a roleplayer who doesnt enjoy PVP i can see why they still function.
I would think that PvE would require more defined roles that PvP?

paul_preib's Avatar


paul_preib
01.30.2013 , 05:33 PM | #34
*wonders aloud how many "do away with the trinity" threads are started by dpsers that don't want to wait in Group Finder queues or are unhappy with the performance of a given tank/healer compared to those legitimately seeking a change in approach.
Cyperian -- Sorceror Cyterian-- Sentinel Cyrellian-- Trooper Cyprian-- Sage
Cylerian-- Scoundrel Kyrellian-- Sniper
Of the Bloodborne and Deargna-Fhuil Legacies

Pantaro's Avatar


Pantaro
01.30.2013 , 05:36 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by ShatteredVision View Post
Go play GW2 if you're so interested in this. Oh wait, that game is boring as hell after a couple of weeks.

The trinity works fine for this game. QQ somewhere else.
damn someone beat me to it! lol

hey OP GW2 fanboys belong on the GW2 forums!

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
01.30.2013 , 05:37 PM | #36
There's a better solution.

Join a guild and never partner with people who don't know what the heck they're doing again.

It sounds like every time you group you get clueless players. The problem isn't the game, the problem is you keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins.
It always wins because it is everywhere.
The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
Click my Referral Code for free goodies!

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
01.30.2013 , 05:39 PM | #37
Developers of today have neutered all classes in the name of balance. People insist on being able to solo everything, which is not possible with truly distinct classes. The result is that the differences in classes is now relatively minor compared to what it was. That is the problem, not the opposite.

A pure "healer" Sage in this game is far more survivable than a DPS was in EQ (without even bothering to heal), and does far more damage than a tank did in EQ.

AsheraII's Avatar


AsheraII
01.30.2013 , 05:45 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Klarick View Post
Guild Wars 2 proved that an MMO without dedicated roles, such as in the trinity system, is soleless, bland, dull, and just plain boring. Roles of Tank, Heal, and baddies (DPS) are the staple of MMO's -- and they shouldn't be messed with.
It's pretty easy to ask in hindsight "what were they thinking, removing roles like that".
Well, their decision to take out the classroles wasn't that strange an idea. Quite a few Guild Wars developers originated from Blizzard. The REAL blizzard, pre-Activision times. Some of them even worked on Diablo II. And that's where it starts to make sense. Diablo II didn't have dedicated roles either. Variation in things like offensive and defensive stats were very minor, it was mostly the abilities that made a difference. And Diablo II was quite a success. A bigger success than its successor if you look how long it kept people playing.

They made a few mistakes though:
1) Diablo II wasn't an MMO. It actually wasn't even an RPG, but a Hack & Slash with gear and stats.
2) Most people actually played Diablo II on their own.
3) Unbelievable as it sounds, MMO players want to do something more than just push buttons. They want a bit of a challenge as well. The challenge of working together and keeping an eye on your groupmembers was taken out of the equation, but the void wasn't filled with another challenge. They could've compensated the loss of challenge with things like EQ2 style puzzles or something, but for some reason, they chose not to, making the initial excitement about the game very shortlived.

Another game decided to keep the roles, but give everybody access to them: Rift. And somehow, this too turned out to be a flawed design. It quickly became evident that some baseclasses were way better at certain roles than others, and they simply left it at that. So while it seemed a very player-friendly system, it simply didn't deliver on that promise.

And while disbalances will always be there, seperate classes with only few assigned roles to each, are easier to manage for the developer. Some classes are slightly better than others at certain roles, but the difference isn't big enough to deny or kick certain classes from your guild, since you know that they aren't far behind the rest anyway, and occasionally even pull ahead of the rest.
. . . . . . ¶▀‼▀▀▀▀
__=##¯¯(▀▀[Φ]▀▀▀▀‼‼▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀‼▀▀!
|####/ ( /==¯¯¯¯¯|####/¯¯

DorkTrooper's Avatar


DorkTrooper
01.30.2013 , 06:05 PM | #39
If you disagree with this post....see the thread titled....Don't Get Discouraged by Jerks in Pug's, FP's and Op's. I am offering a solution to eliminate jerks in mmo's,..well no way to totally eliminate jerks but you get the idea

I enjoy tanking and healing more than just doing damage. So yeah, I disagree with your post.

Eliminating tanking will not get rid of any jerks. It's still possible to screw over a whole group playing as a DPS. I've seen it happen many, many times.

ETA, I do not play PvP. I don't care if the roles are balanced beyond everyone being able to contribute to an ops/boss win.

Rafael_Peres's Avatar


Rafael_Peres
01.30.2013 , 06:11 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Jetsunz View Post
Its,..2013 and I think we all can agree something needs to change. I am talking about the old, worn out and tired system of Tank, DPS, and Heal. It really is obsolete in this day and age,...everyone...EVERYONE no matter what class you are ....wants to beat on the bad guy,..they want to slay,..ok.....they don't want to follow rules in fights...they just want to beat on stuff and watch stuff die

This notion that you have to have dps, heal and tank in fights is old school...it's past its time

Ask anyone...ANYONE...and they will tell you...they just want to Tank n Spank and get hell outta there and collect the commendations. In and Out..simple..fast and done

As it is now,...what do people do in flashpoints? Lol...they skip trash and go directly to Boss and kill for the phat lewt. Spacebar commandos and don't you dare listen to the story...rush to the Boss...get your objective and done

Dps fights stuff that the tank isn't even fighting ROFL...healer is healing the dps'rs instead of the tank ROFL...tank is has no clue what aggro is ROFL.....i mean it is total chaos in mmo gaming now days. It is rare to find a coordinated group in traditional tank, heal and dps roles working like a swiss watch

Recommendation:
1. Give everyone a natural heal buff over time duration
2. Give everyone heavy armor
3. Give everyone an equal amount of dps
4. Get rid of need and pass and make all loot drop particular to your class and automatically go into your inventory

If you disagree with this post....see the thread titled....Don't Get Discouraged by Jerks in Pug's, FP's and Op's. I am offering a solution to eliminate jerks in mmo's,..well no way to totally eliminate jerks but you get the idea
Try to do this in TFB HM or any other ops.

Game is more than few flashpoints.
Nesher - Sith Marauder / Bithyah - Operative / Sarit - Powertech / Mälkah - Sith Assassin
Perach - Jedi Guardian / Malkah- Jedi Shadow / Ayyít - Jedi Sentinel