Scoundrels/Operatives ridculously OP.

It's hard to argue with you Popsi (cool name btw). But I do see solo nonstealth guards all the time. O.o. Because it's considered "crap duty", a weak player is often chosen to occupy the local turret until a 2nd is taken, at which time you send another person over. But before then is a prime opportunity to stealthstrike a turret grab.

To not be in stealth would alert enemy reinforcements too soon, so its falls to a scound or sin class to make it happen right. Because both classes get two instant cast 8 second mezzes (the scound without even having to spec into it), the idea is always to mezz, attempt cap, get interrupted, re-mezz and then cap. BUT, that requires the guard to be 10 -15 meters away. Any closer and they'll stop your cap when they come out of the 2nd mezz. Any further, and they're too far away to pop the 2nd mezz. They also have to be green enough to not know how to handle the situation, since an 8 second mezz is actually not quite long enough to cap an 8 second turret (except for Hypergate, but that has it's own tradeoffs). With such a specific set of requirements, the nonCombat stealthcap is a rare thing, rare enough to where, in the long run, you have wasted too much of your team's time in the various attempts. You're better off to attempt to kill the guard, then cap. In most cases, this won't work because at least one reinforcement will arrive, though it's usually two. When they arrive, chances are excellent that the original guard will be running back. Now that's 3, so the pimp hybrid heals come into play. You still won't last long. That's when you incombat stealth and just sit there (or leave). The point is that now, 3 guys are standing there indecisively because you presented yourself as a real threat. If one gets smart and attempts to leave, Sleep Dart. You can keep those 3 boys tied up for a while, during which time hopefully a 2nd turret is taken across the field. Now that I have done many times.

But you're right, if you're full heal spec and attempting to do this, you're letting your team down. Better to let a sin do it, if you have one and he's motivated. The hybrid op is not meant to be a healer, but to possess enough native healing to extend an engagement long enough to succeed objectively. But he couldnt do any of that without being able to go into stealth mid combat. I have a merc and sorc, and tried them both in DPS specs. They don't have anything like slow release medpac or instant cast cycling HoTs that would allow them to hybridize effectively with DPS. In fact, their native heals are really only used if you manage to get away and can top yourself off before you leave combat. But that's cool, it's not like Ops get the big phat heals of sorcs. But if they're going to try this, they shouldnt have a Get out of Jail Free card every time it's not going their way.

This thread is frustrating. In all honestly folks,

the only area a Scoundrel/Operative should be considered Overpowered is the healing tree.

Our "burst" is nothing compared to Focus/Rage spec, Carnage Spec, Assault/Pyrotech Specs.

They hit for more and their damage is sustainable. Scrapper cannot sustain dps.

As for the "hybrid" specs. Choosing sedatives and Slow release medpack requires 13 talent points in sawbones. This means you can spend 27 on scrapper tree. So, you ll either get KO (stun on opener) OR 2/3 Underdog (20% additional critical damage on some abilities). And then you ll have 0 on lethality. (Minus critical and blaster whip damage). I ll try it, but i feel it will be beyond bad.

Bottomline. DPS Operatives/Scoundrels are not Overpowered in any way. If you get owned by them its because one or all of the following:
(a) You don't know what to do against this class. (Yes, that was a polite way of saying you are bad)
(b) You were severely undergeared compared to the guy who jumped you.

Are we talking about the current state of operatives now, or still the date this was posted?

I have been playing around with my scrapper lately after playing around with my sin. I will say it seems like Concealment/scrapper was meant to kill a single target more with a quick burst, but then be out of combat waiting for CDs because you are nearly useless after that. the sin does not have the initial burst, but thier burst lasts longer and rolls into sustatined DPS and they have the survivability to keep fighting I find the scrapper lacks. Concealment to scrapper wise. lethality also is not as good as madness due to the UH requirements IMO.

I am not even going to try and address all of LordXayd's points. Some of them are just so hilariously wrong that they rebut themselves ("smashers, who btw are very very squishy, even the juggs", "Ops get every steatlh abiltiy of the Sin, including stealth detection and level boosters & speed haste PLUS group stealth", etc.). Seriously. GROUP STEALTH? Are we talking about SMUGGLE, one of the worst abilities in PvP?

I wasn't even planning to post in this ridiculous, necrod thread, but if it looks like it is here to stay then some misconceptions need to be dealt with.
Before some mega troll revived this thread, the last post in it was 2/17/2012. Of those last few posts, most of them mentioned how Ops had been nerfed into the ground and needed a BUFF, not a nerf. The only thing that "speaks for itself" is your flagrant misuse of evidence. At release, Ops were completely out of control. They had too much damage and too much stun. BW fixed that with a series of good nerfs (knockdown reduced to 1.5 seconds) and unnecessary ones (Backstab CD increase).
Either you are severely overstating your case, or you are just the worst Sin on the forum. There is a reason that Sins are always taken above Ops in Ranked WZ teams. A Madness/Deception hybrid has almost identical burst to a Concealment Op, and far better sustained damage and resource management. The internal damage burst on such Sins hits far harder than the single Acid Blade DOT, lasts longer, heals the Sin, and can be applied more frequently. Sins also have a true finishing ability that will almost always hit for the exact same as a critted Backstab or Hidden Strike, if not more. This doesn't even get at their vastly superior utility and survivability that Sins have without even touching the Tank tree (Force Speed, higher base HP, and the outrageous Force Shroud). It also ignore the group utility that Sins have courtesy of single target and mass taunt, neither of which need to be used in tank stance. And that is to say nothing at all about the tank/DPS Sin hybrids, another spec that has vastly superior sustained damage and survivability.
I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are talking purely about Sawbones/Scrapper hybrids. You seem like a reasonable (maybe) individual, and there is just no way you can be seriously comparing Concealment damage to that of a Deception/Madness Sin. So let's talk about healing.

It is widely accepted that Sawbones healing is crazy. I think it's on the "broken" side of things, but that's just me. If you were JUST complaining about pure Sawbones healers, i.e. those with at least 21+ points in the Sawbones tree, then I would probably agree with you.

But you are referring to healing hybrids, and that leads me to believe that you have no idea what you are talking about. Any hybrid Scrapper with SRMP or other Sawbones talents above 11 points instantly loses access to the only ability that makes them hit hard: Flechette Round. Without the Flechette Round DOT and the 30% Armor Penetration, Scrappers lose almost all of their burst. It is especially noticeable against classes with higher mitigation (powertechs, juggs, sins), where the Scrapper goes from a serious damage contender to a tickling annoyance. The only thing that hybrid Scrappers get is a reliable Upper Hand generation system to more effectively spam Sucker Punch. Punch itself is a straight up kinetic damage attack with no armor penetration, no self healing, no DOT application, no synergy with other abilities (extra crit, cooldown resets, etc.), and no attached CC of any kind. Are such hybrids hard to kill? Absolutely; Sawbones is a healing tree that is just too powerful. But are such hybrids also a DPS monster? Absolutely not.

I am not sure why you persist in these opinions given everything that others have said. My suspicion is that you have lost fights to Scrappers in a 1v1 and are now calling for their unilateral nerfing. I suggest that you look through the forums and get a good look at which classes are overperforming and which are not. You will find that Scrappers/Concealments are consistently at the bottom of the PvP barrel.

EDIT: As a final note, I will say that Ops/Scrappers have a unique ability set to exploit the natural weaknesses in Pug WZs. Nodes are often defended by one player in Recruit gear, an easy target for an incoming Scrapper. Similarly, with no voice chat or coordination, this class can easily pick off targets before allies notice and come to help. But 1) this is equally true of Sins and Shadows and 2) it is absolutely untrue in ranked WZs or against semi-competent premades.

Has no one realised that OP had less than 13k health ? Re read OP, do the math, post on another thread.

I don't think anyone is responding to the OP. He posted this literally 13 months ago. At this point, people are responding to the guys who necrod this thread and continue to believe that Ops are too powerful (most notably this LordXayd character).

Don't waste your time man. Trolls gonna troll.

Another blast from the past!

Relevant : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bo52kM1-c0

They are OP. They have harder to sustain dps. But they always have the advantage in a fight because it's on their terms. No matter what, I will always think they are op.