Scoundrels/Operatives ridculously OP.

stop this old thread now more then a year ago

Good idea.

Cept, now that we posted in it.... whoops!

cmon man.................

So after a 4.7, 3.8 and 3.0 hit, you have 10% HP left?? hmm

4700+3800+3000=11500 x .10= 1,150+ 11500=......... 12650 Total HP at level 50.....

lol

They are nowhere near OP
Learn to play
Get some Gear
Then come back and complain when you are in a position to do so.

OK, first off. The fact that this thread has 115 pages speaks for itself in regards to whether this class is overpowered.

Yeah, I think the Op is OP. Aptly named.
But rather than going into numerical oblivion, let's speak basically.

You NEVER NEVER NEVER give a healer in-combat stealth. NEVER.
There are 5 overall leet abilities is MMO classes, any 2 of which should NEVER be combined in any class.

1. Burst DPS.
2. Heals (meaning any class that is meant to be a healer).
3. Plate tankage (in this game, meaning heavy armor combined with native tank abilities that dont require an AA tree).
4. Stealth (but I'll refine this to in-combat stealth, meaning the ability to stealth while engaged).
5. Feign Death (which, in this game, is likenable to in-combat stealth).

The unique situation with TOR is that 6 of the 8 archetypes (or 6 of the 16 subclasses) have the ability to be a healer AND something else. Now, the scound/op can heal on the run with the majority of their heals. That means instant casts, meaning no interrupts. Most of these are HoTs, so it takes some time to feel their effects, but one of them (slow release medpac) is cheap to cast, a decently large heal and can be stacked. You combine all the instant cast HoT's plus the occasional free sizable instant cast full, and you end up with a very hard to kill PvP healer.

Also, a nifty little ability (Sedatives) in the healing tree (that only costs 2 points I might add), reduces the targets DPS by 50% for 10 seconds when First Strike is used (which is a pretty big attack by itself). 50%. 10 Seconds. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. You wanna know why you're dying when they jump you? It's because you're gimped. All your high cooldown big booms are halved. 10 seconds is the majority of the engagement. That ability costs no power and is passive. And it's in the healing tree? Hmm.

I have a well geared Sin and Scound. The base dmg (just looking at the base numbers of the abilities) is no comparison. The scound's got em beat. And the scound's attacks are less situational. The biggest Sin ability is assassinate. It requires the target to be below 30%, the attacker to be behind them and within 4M. No scound ability is that high in dmg, but they have several that are near it and they're not situational. First Strike is, but obviously that one's a guarantee. And a scound would be a fool not to open with First Strike since it gimps your DPS by 50%.

Now I'm talking about a hybrid scound that went far enough up the healing tree to maximize slow release medpac. So when you combine those remaining points to create a fairly high burst DPS class WITH pimp heals AND in-combat stealth guaranteeing first strike ability (which we all know is at the core of successful PvP), you end up with a class that (when combined with a knowledgeable player) is highly advantaged over the other classes. And if it doesnt work out, they can just *poof* out of the situation, robbing you of your victory against the odds. Believe it or not, there are classes out there that have no significant DoTs to break their poof. Sorcs and Mercs for example.

In every other MMO I've played where there was an assassin, they were the best stealthers (nonCombat) and held tier 1 DPS. But in this game, only an allstar can do enough with the pitiful base dmg of a Sin to make it a class to be reckoned with. But an average player can put out similar dmg with a hybrid Op. And to add insult to injury, Ops get every steatlh abiltiy of the Sin (including stealth detection and level boosters & speed haste) PLUS group stealth. Not that I use that much, but the point is they get more stealth ability than the Sin. THE SIN. THAT is a JOKE. I mean, what was BW thinking? They're really showing their green MMO stripes here. My scound is relatively recent. But I've heard that ops/scounds have already been significantly nerfed. I can only imagine what they must have once been. No class should outstealth an Assassin. I've never even heard of such a thing. And to give the Op better DPS (notably better) is mind boggling. But I suppose that's a byproduct of allowing a healer to hybridize.

Generally speaking, I've rolled 8 classes to 50 and PvP'd with all them. Some of them are very clearly more instantly suited to PvP than others. Those classes don't require EWH to be stellar. Simple WH is sufficient and you can get that in a week. I have a marauder too, and everyone goes on about how OP they are. I disagree. A high Smash hit requires maximized gear even against an average geared player. AND you have to build a sequence of abilities to maximize it, so you cant use it very often (at high dmg). And once its built up, you got about 10 seconds or you lose it. Not that I consider the marauder to be a fun class, so I dont use him anymore except for crafting. So I'm not all pro-marauder or anything.

The point is when I talk about how I think the op/scound is OP, you wont see me whining about the usual class that folks complain about (smashers, who btw are very very squishy, even the juggs). When I say something is OP, I speak from experience. But again, I didnt even have to maximize gear to know. You DO NOT give a healer burst dmg or in-combat stealth/feign death. You get one, not two of anything, or you're OP.

1/ Would you like to see a plate tank class with burst DPS?
* A true tank class has native skills that dont require wasting AAs to become a tank. Turning a cloth wearer into a tank by forcing them to use all their AA points does not compare to a plate tank that starts out a tank and merely enhances their tanking with AAs while snatching up other things.
2/ Would you like to be set upon by a Sniper with 200 or 300 healing per second?
3/ Would you like to be jumped by a cloaked tier1 DPS Sin with plate tank survivability?
4/ Or a plate tank with tier1 DPS or 200/300 healing per second?

Combining these things is a no-no. But there's no way to fix it without a serious restructuring of the class system. You're a healer, a tank or DPS. You dont get to be a combination of two at 80% effectiveness in both. It's supposed to be an equal trade-off, but BW failed here.

Perhaps you missed the 2nd stun he mentioned, during which he's set upon again.

perhaps you missed the fact that this thread was originally posted 12/30/2011? and that today's date is 1/30/2013?

What does that have to do with the price of tea in Zimbabwe?

This thread is a year old they got nerfed a few times

I mentioned that just above. Everything I wrote up there is current.