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NiM EC Tanks DPS Requirement?


IAmViiOLENT's Avatar


IAmViiOLENT
01.29.2013 , 10:12 AM | #11
This past week, our final dps numbers were from a PT, Mara, and two mercs with 1903, 1967, 1531 and 1487 respectively. This pushed us well past the enrage, so I assume that if you took off 100 or so dps from each of us that'd still be past enrage.

Slugamaniac's Avatar


Slugamaniac
01.29.2013 , 11:03 AM | #12
1500-1600dps average feels about right. This was our average from our 8 man NiM kill of tanks last night. One of our dps DC'ed near the end of raid so I don't have an exact number for all the dps involved.

We had 1 melee and 3 ranged (1 sentinel, 2 commando, 1 gunslinger). Our method for dealing with DD was front loading all dps on Stormcaller until the first DD, at which point melee and one ranged (both of which who ate a DD) peel off and focus on Firebrand. Melee stayed on Firebrand the rest of the fight, ranged switched to Stormcaller until next DD went off. In this way we were able to avoid a second DD after each defensive system phase.

Once Stormcaller gets down to 20%, ALL dps switched to Firebrand to burn her down. All the ranged dps and our healers would alternate the remaining DD's that went out until Firebrand was dead and then all dps focused Stormcaller down until she was dead as well.

During the shield phases we kill the first transdouchan as a group, melee or one dps would finish the 2nd one while ranged booted the exploding transdouchan out of the shield and range dps'ed it down.

One other mechanic, we have our shadow tank (that is tanking Stormcaller) taunt Firebrand during incinerate armor since our guardian tanking Firebrand was getting positively nuked by that ability.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.29.2013 , 01:15 PM | #13
My guild uses a DPS-switching strategy, where the DPS swap sides after every DD. Each DPS pair consists of a melee and a ranged, so that there is always one ranged DPS in each shield (we run twin shadow tanks and yank the explody trandoshans to be killed from afar). Since we DPS swap, we're usually lazy and just allow the second DD to go off, but there have been ocaisions where we push it (just for fun) and skip the second DD. Based on the numbers we've seen from parsing when that happens, it looks like the DPS requirement is in the range of 1900 for both DPS on SC if you want to reliably skip the second DD. Our two melee DPS parse in the 2-2.1k range, while our commando parses around 1950 and our sage is 1800-1900, so it really just depends on how we feel like doing the boss.

I'd say that, in general, DPS switching is the most lenient strategy, especially if you have at least 2 ranged. The burst requirements are less severe, and mistakes are more recoverable. Once everyone masters the positioning and movement requirements, this boss becomes a pretty easy one-shot.
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Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
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KarethRiker's Avatar


KarethRiker
01.29.2013 , 01:19 PM | #14
From our experience I believe the combined DPS need on SC is about 3500. When our top melee DPS first tried it we were about 1700 or 1800 before getting DG power clicky relic. Getting that one on one of the DPS pushed us over. On our last attempt we did it with a Combat Sent and Gunnery Commando and I believe the combined DPS was about 3600. Two sents or Vanguard + sent is an easy clear at about 1900-2100 each.
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OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
01.29.2013 , 02:03 PM | #15
Our normal group has 2 sin tanks, a merc DPS, ptech dps (me), Mara and a sniper. 2 sorc heals or a sorc and an op usually.

I do the taunt swap on my ptech, so of course on firebrand. We actually push the phases through on firebrand instead of stormcaller. Between me and the merc usually no problem with it, though we have sniper do his orbital on fire instead of storm. On storm caller adds, merc knocks em out and we aoe them, ptech aoe+10meter attacks works great for this. The sin on our side will sometimes pull one back in. On storm side they kill the non-bomb first, get second low and sniper knocks it out and finishes it off.

Storm caller is usually at like 10-15% when fire dies, and starts spam casting "ultimate destruction" on the tanks. They swap back and forth to slow debuff and we burn him down.

I guess everyone seems to push phases on storm instead of fire, while we do the other way around, but it seems to work for us. /shrug.
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OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
01.29.2013 , 02:10 PM | #16
Whoo double post.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

Loki_'s Avatar


Loki_
02.03.2013 , 08:05 AM | #17
Did anyone find any real numbers for this, as far as I can work out the second double begins to cast at 46 seconds
1033427 hp per tank is 2066854 total hp.

Broke down into 4 20% phases is 516,713.5 total raid dmg needed per phase in 45 sec which is a total of 11,482 combined dps needed from your raid

Shadow and Vanguard tanks can push around 700-800dps max, guardians 400-500dps max so say we take a shadow and a vanguard that is 1400 dps of the total leaving 10082 dps needed from dps and healers so thats 2k per dps and around 500 dps needed from each healer.

Which means if you take two guardian/jug tanks your going to get two doubles every time as 2k dps is the limits of what most classes can do now other than sent / vanguard and the occasional slinger pulling 2100 ish

Feel free to add anything if I have missed anything here ?

Mavery's Avatar


Mavery
02.03.2013 , 07:19 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Loki_ View Post
Did anyone find any real numbers for this, as far as I can work out the second double begins to cast at 46 seconds
1033427 hp per tank is 2066854 total hp.

Broke down into 4 20% phases is 516,713.5 total raid dmg needed per phase in 45 sec which is a total of 11,482 combined dps needed from your raid

Shadow and Vanguard tanks can push around 700-800dps max, guardians 400-500dps max so say we take a shadow and a vanguard that is 1400 dps of the total leaving 10082 dps needed from dps and healers so thats 2k per dps and around 500 dps needed from each healer.

Which means if you take two guardian/jug tanks your going to get two doubles every time as 2k dps is the limits of what most classes can do now other than sent / vanguard and the occasional slinger pulling 2100 ish

Feel free to add anything if I have missed anything here ?
If you put three or four dpsers hitting one tank, the dps required to avoid a second double destruction lessens significantly. At the same time, I've seen videos of groups take two DDs. So it doesn't matter either way.

Raekor's Avatar


Raekor
02.05.2013 , 03:08 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Loki_ View Post
Did anyone find any real numbers for this, as far as I can work out the second double begins to cast at 46 seconds
1033427 hp per tank is 2066854 total hp.

Broke down into 4 20% phases is 516,713.5 total raid dmg needed per phase in 45 sec which is a total of 11,482 combined dps needed from your raid

Shadow and Vanguard tanks can push around 700-800dps max, guardians 400-500dps max so say we take a shadow and a vanguard that is 1400 dps of the total leaving 10082 dps needed from dps and healers so thats 2k per dps and around 500 dps needed from each healer.

Which means if you take two guardian/jug tanks your going to get two doubles every time as 2k dps is the limits of what most classes can do now other than sent / vanguard and the occasional slinger pulling 2100 ish

Feel free to add anything if I have missed anything here ?
Only problem I see with this is you actually have a little under 1 minute. 5 seconds to get in position (so wasted), 10 seconds until first DD, then 45 seconds until the second which needs to be beaten. You also need to take into account small amounts of DPS during the DS casting, though that is usually only 1-2%.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
02.05.2013 , 07:46 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
My guild uses a DPS-switching strategy, where the DPS swap sides after every DD. Each DPS pair consists of a melee and a ranged, so that there is always one ranged DPS in each shield (we run twin shadow tanks and yank the explody trandoshans to be killed from afar). Since we DPS swap, we're usually lazy and just allow the second DD to go off, but there have been ocaisions where we push it (just for fun) and skip the second DD. Based on the numbers we've seen from parsing when that happens, it looks like the DPS requirement is in the range of 1900 for both DPS on SC if you want to reliably skip the second DD. Our two melee DPS parse in the 2-2.1k range, while our commando parses around 1950 and our sage is 1800-1900, so it really just depends on how we feel like doing the boss.

I'd say that, in general, DPS switching is the most lenient strategy, especially if you have at least 2 ranged. The burst requirements are less severe, and mistakes are more recoverable. Once everyone masters the positioning and movement requirements, this boss becomes a pretty easy one-shot.
Why? What is the point of doing this? I'm really curious because I just can't work out the whole thing at all. Your ranged DPS parse similar and your melee parse similar and you have one of each in both pairs - so what's the point in switching them around?

I'm sure I'm missing something here as I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but can't figure out what is it.