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7-14 day lock out on relisting GTN items

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
7-14 day lock out on relisting GTN items

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
01.28.2013 , 06:25 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by anonnn View Post
A lot of very naive people around here. Price fixing in the real world would get a person landed in jail. It's illegal, period. There's no possibility of any argument in favor of price fixing. Most of what has been posted to "defend" people's right to buy and sell however they please on the GTN is, in fact, in favor of the maximum re-selling constraints already described, if you can summon even an ounce of idea of ethical standards concerning the issue. And if you look closely and objectively, people claiming that the GTN market eventually balances anyway are proving the entire point in favor of maximum constraints (just reread the sentence closely until you understand).
You don't understand what price fixing is. Flippers cannot control the behavior of others, nor do they have any sort of secret cabal to keep prices high. In fact, flipping couldn't even exist in the presence of price fixing as no goods would enter the market at a low enough price to make a profit.

Price fixing can only exist where all the producers of a product will agree to sell a good or service at a particular price. That's not what is happening here. Here some producers buy up rivals in order to strengthen their market. That happens all the time.
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KillaDeuce's Avatar


KillaDeuce
01.28.2013 , 06:53 PM | #42
I don't think this is a good idea at all. But am not even worried about it.

Personally, (maybe someone else has) I have never played a game that does anything like this with its player market.


We already know that EAware is able to track item prices and such on the market. They have done nothing to restrict anything like this from happening so far.


I doubt EAware will put any resources into doing anything like this in the foreseeable future.

So yeah commenting anymore on it is a waste of time. Surprised I said this much. LOL
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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
01.28.2013 , 07:03 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by anonnn View Post
A lot of very naive people around here. Price fixing in the real world would get a person landed in jail. It's illegal, period. There's no possibility of any argument in favor of price fixing. Most of what has been posted to "defend" people's right to buy and sell however they please on the GTN is, in fact, in favor of the maximum re-selling constraints already described, if you can summon even an ounce of idea of ethical standards concerning the issue. And if you look closely and objectively, people claiming that the GTN market eventually balances anyway are proving the entire point in favor of maximum constraints (just reread the sentence closely until you understand).

What we're talking about here is putting some kind of system in place to prevent price fixing on the GTN. Don't get yourself agape at how difficult that seems to implement... either they have a database whiz on staff or they don't. And that was just a once-through idea of how to thwart price fixers. They could alternatively add diagnostic systems that find price-fixers, and track the activities of blatant price-inflaters who choke the low-price supplies of goods on purpose in order to resell it all at ugly prices. Another solution is to make resources Bound To Legacy once purchased off the GTN or traded (now my favorite solution); it seems overly limiting but would guarantee that the resource bought off the GTN is an orginally-harvested item and not from a reseller who choked off all the lower-priced same resource. People would just learn to not pre-purchase large stacks of resources.

I know lots of people like the idea of an empire of wealth-building with no constraints, and even are of the belief that that is the American way; however at some point you have to defer to real ethics and fairness and honesty and all that somesuch that so many people like to discourage from entering real discussion. I could be more direct by saying "don't try to rip people off" but that just results in sniveling ratty arguments in retort to the reminder of their own conscience.

The implication is of course that price fixing is already going on in SWToR on a regular basis. And don't be so naive: if someone has 25M in credits saved up, they can choke the supply of any single item or resource indefinitely... and then charge exorbitant amounts of money for the resources and actually get people here and there buying it up. Don't even try to call that sort of low-down activity a free-market-economy; in the real world people doing that are landed in jail. It's a type of thievery - in any MMO, people who thieve have their accounts canceled, anyone caught price fixing in SWToR in a formal and sustained way should not be allowed to remain a subscriber.

Either you understand the ethics involved in what I'm describing, or you don't.

Say yes to Bind To Legacy for purchased/traded resources.
The current GTN is fine the way it is. I don't see why you care so much.

Petnil's Avatar


Petnil
01.28.2013 , 07:59 PM | #44
i actually kinda of like the idea of making everything you buy of GTM bind. Make it BoL so we can still buy on main and send to alts. It´s a better fix than a lockout imo. Ofc making craftet items with bop mats shouldn´t effect the items that are craftet.


The only "problem" with this is the people who play the GTM game.

Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
01.28.2013 , 08:24 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Petnil View Post
i actually kinda of like the idea of making everything you buy of GTM bind. Make it BoL so we can still buy on main and send to alts. It´s a better fix than a lockout imo. Ofc making craftet items with bop mats shouldn´t effect the items that are craftet.


The only "problem" with this is the people who play the GTM game.
While BoL wouldnt bother me in the least
It would not address the concern that someone might buy something wrongly and then not be able to place it back on GTN

I guess a 2 day timer (like whats on tionesse, columi, Rakata, ect gear currently) would eliminate that concern and it could hard code that item could only be relisted at same purchase value or lower.

But that one "escape" clause would have to be in for those people that buy things wrongly.

I got more then a few guildies that have purchased something only to find they didnt need it after the fact
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MaximusRex's Avatar


MaximusRex
01.28.2013 , 08:59 PM | #46
Even if there is a relist wait time that won't do anything to the flipping behavior, it will still be better to buy low and relist later at a higher price.

In fact it it would likely make materials less available then more available rather then more available as the OP posits. This would serve to drive up rarity and prices even more making it more worthwhile to strip the GTN of resources in order to monopolize those markets, creating severe supply rarities and rapid inflation of prices.

PetFish's Avatar


PetFish
01.28.2013 , 11:27 PM | #47
This is one of the most ridiculous suggestions I've ever seen.

I can't believe people actually think that the small % of players who actually keep an eye on the market and use their patience and skill to make money is a problem.

"Hey, I play the market, but anyone who just PvE's is making too much money and should be locked out of looting for 7-14 days once they get 50k/day! It's not fair that people can have 6 toons and run dailies every single day and make so much money while I toil away on the GTN."

Give me a break.
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ArenRakescar's Avatar


ArenRakescar
01.29.2013 , 02:46 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
Flippers are good for supply. Flippers stabilize prices and counter irrational deflation. I spent years making this argument in City of Heroes and people still didn't believe it and I doubt folks here will.
Couldn't agree more. The benefits of a stable economy are innumerable - it protects both the buyer and the seller because they can evaluate the price of an item against it's established average. Conversely, a wildly fluctuating economy leads to rampant gouging.

This established average value (aka going rate) is really just another form of community consensus, that is arrived at through market forces of supply and demand and further influenced by factors like intrinsic value. It is not some figure that a flipper sucked out of his thumb.

Without consensus you have chaos.

Would I personally spend ~50K on a slicing mission? No, probably not. But I could do it and still not be ripped off because the going rate for everything that is derived from augments support that price tag. See how wonderful the world is when you can make informed decisions like these?

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
01.29.2013 , 03:05 AM | #49
You must make a killer amount of money on stocks kalfear.

Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
01.29.2013 , 05:32 AM | #50
I'd be honest with you, but then I would most likely get an infraction for it due to over zealous mods.