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Why all the TCW hate?

Omnitheo's Avatar


Omnitheo
01.28.2013 , 12:41 AM | #1
Star Wars fans are the worst. I should know, I'm pretty into it myself. Very divided communities, people who hate the prequels, people who hate the EU, people who hate Ewoks, but the most interesting group is the one that hates TCW.

until season 3 of TCW was airing, I was in the "this show sucks" camp. I was younger when the original CW show aired, and liked it when I was able to watch the whole thing at once. it was entertaining to watch and had some neat stuff happen. So years later when a new TCW came out, and was preceeded by a sub-par theatrical release animated movie with a youngling main character, i wasn't too thrilled.

I was on forums spouting the same "this show sucks, it's childish and lame" comments so many others posted. Then I started watching episodes in the background while I was doing other things (such as playing TOR). All of a sudden, things started happening in the show that I cared about. I began to start liking the characters, and then suddenly I was as immersed in TCW as I am in the books.

I'll try and address some comments I've seen in opposition to the show:

-"It's aimed at kids"
Half of my life as a star wars fan was spent as a kid. I was 10 when I saw Episode IV. Just because it's aimed at kids doesn't mean anything bad. So was the original Clone Wars series, so was Transformers and Dragonball Z. All aimed at kids, all awesome.

-"it's censored because it's on a kids network"
By the sheer virtue of being Star Wars, TCW gets away with more violence than almost any other "kids" show I can think of. The fact that most deaths are droids or clones seems to give them a bit of leeway with their ability to show violence, that said, characters die all the time in this show, sometimes people are just murdered in cold blood. They might not show an actual decapitation (unless they're in body armor) but they'll sure make it obvious that it is happening. In fact, it's difficult to think of other shows with as high a body count as TCW

-"It's not as good as the original Clone Wars series"
I understand people are a fan of the samurai jack animation, and that series definitely had some good moments, but really, that series was about 2 hours long, and had very little in the way of plot or dialogue. it was cool fight scenes. This series doesn't necessarily overwrite it either, as the original is mainly pre-knighted Anakin, and this series is post-knighted anakin, with a padawan of his own. which brings me to...

-"Ahsoka"
people in my group of friends who have seen the whole series still don't care for her, meanwhile all my female friends who enjoy the show absolutely adore and obsess over her. (This is a good thing, more female SW fans). I personally hated her at the start of the show. I also agree, she seemed too powerful at times. Over time however, I came to like the character. I think of her as a bit of a prodigy, and it is only natural that her master is the man who will become Vader. Much of his personality rubs off on her too. Once she gets her Shoto and starts dual wielding, she gets some of the best fight scenes. Also she develops a bit coming into the later seasons. Also a good thing.

-"I don't like the prequel era"
Fair enough. I kind of agree. In fact my giant EU bookshelf is only really missing books from this era. Part of which was the characters. Anakin Skywalker? ew, you mean little boy and Hayden? I hate sand, it's coarse and it gets in everything. Obi Wan is always holding me back. How is this the man who becomes Darth Vader? Here's the Answer: The Clone Wars. This is the war that changes him, these are the events that shape him, and teach him why the Jedi Order is flawed, no, the entire galaxy. Anakin Skywalker in TCW is Darth Vader, and as the show goes on you will see it more and more (Anakin always goes for darkside points). Not to mention that Obi Wan is the epitome of a Jedi Knight.

-"it's non-canon"
Wrong, it is more canon than this game is. Only media in all of Star Wars that is more canon than TCW are the movies themselves. This is an official fact, and not a matter of opinion

-"it messes with the canon"
at first, yes, it definitely seemed to. Pacifist Mandalore? ***? Anakin having an apprentice? At first, I had to take a lot of this with a grain of salt. Pretty soon I started seeing more and more nods to the EU, and I started to realize, the people who are making this series know what they are doing, and they aren't just blindly stomping over SW lore (in fact they almost even had Bane and Revan show up at one point). Case in point, Pacifist Mandalore, which has been effectively ended as of the recent arc which re-establishes Mandalore as the warrior world that fits the canon. Better yet, the show does it in an interesting convergence of arcs that have been developing over multiple seasons. Also Ahsoka's addition is in my opinion, going to be the greatest catalyst for Anakin's downfall, as whatever happens to her, is likely in Anakin's mind throughout Season 3 and impacting his judgements.

There are likely many others. Either way though, As a reformed TCW hater, I am curious as to why people dislike the show so much. If you post, please provide an explanation for your feelings (posts like "this show sucks" are not constructive, as we already know there are TCW haters out there, the purpose of this thread is to learn why).

-------------------------------------

TL;DR: If you dislike this show, please give your reason why

Want to give TCW a chance, but not ready to suffer through the early seasons? I recommend starting at Season 3.12. This is a good arc involving Asaaj Ventress, and sets the stage for many events to come. It also features Dooku as Darth Tyrannis, Dark Lord of the Sith. (I mean you see why he is worthy of the title Darth).

Bird_of_Thunder's Avatar


Bird_of_Thunder
01.28.2013 , 12:54 AM | #2
Retconning, my friend. Retconning.
Lord Ravvok
Annihilation Marauder
<Ebon Hawk, U.S>

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
01.28.2013 , 01:13 AM | #3
Well I went to watch the TCW movie in 2008, it's ok. But I soon lost interest of the TV series because it's lack of focus and a bit childish.

It got some good ideas but due to lack of focus, they couldn't expand the idea well enough, a few good episodes but the story still need further development, then it just discontinued and switched to some child arc.

Satine is my favorite SW female character, I even wrote a fanfic of her and Anakin. The Mortis episodes are quite good, too. Too bad FOTJ made Abeloth but that's not TCW.

A HUGE flaw is the villians are just weak or dumb or both, at least compare to their EU selves. CW is short but it made all the villains strong and scary. In TCW GG turned into a clown who got beaten by gungans, I'm not asking for a CW GG but not like that. Durge has no appearance, Ventress went non evil. Dooku fought by himself too much rather than stay behind the stage and train others to do the works for him, even got owned a few times. Even Palpatine, he gave sinister smile whenever he had the chance, I don't get it, why? To let the kids know he's a evil guy? He should be very carefully hide his identity, and soon we are going to see him go by himself to deal with Maul rather than use Anakin or Dooku, both of them hate Maul like hell.

Maul's return is not good since it brought dead villain back, but it gave us a really tough and scary villain. I started to tightly follow TCW after his return. I think his return could create great story, since Palpatine could use him, Anakin, Dooku and Obi Wan all hate him for the same reason. It could be a very awesome arc if they focus on it in season 5. However, instead we saw they made so many child arc like the droid and Onderon arc, then the Maul brothers arc is clearly short of time, everything is too rushed, both Vizsla and Satine(Soon Sidious) went stupid to push the story go quickly. I actually expected Maul would kill Satine right after seeing him return and even I wrote a better story than TCW. That reflected the flaw of TCW again, they could not focus enough and make a long, good arc which develop the characters and expand the plot well enough. I guess I will stop follow it again after Satine's death.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
01.28.2013 , 11:11 AM | #4
I really hope Tartakovsky could do some SW cartoon again, this time with greater support like TCW.

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
01.28.2013 , 11:46 AM | #5
It's a child's cartoon that keeps retconing important parts of the movies. Bringing back Darth Maul was unforgiveable. He was cut in half and fell down an air shaft. He's dead. Trying to bring him back for a child's cartoon and calling it canon is offensive.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.28.2013 , 11:49 AM | #6
I completely agree with the OP, people hate on TCW and they have reasons to criticise it, but frankly, the positives far outweigh the negatives. The way I see it there are two problems with this show:

At times, its a little cheesy. Yeah its aimed at kids, its on Cartoon Network (soon to be moved to Disney Channel) its gonna have a bit of a cheesy funk to it. But I can get other that. Still it does irk me sometimes, oh well.

The bad guys are pretty weak at times e.g. General Grievous. Who while being totally awesome and brilliantly characterized as the archetypal mustache twirling villain (which, lets face it, he is) does seem to lose, all the time. I can understand this, and IMO this is one real thing that needs to be corrected. In terms of good vs bad, I think the latest episodes have rectified the problem, Maul and Oppress kick butt and several good guys have been felled. But GG is still losing. I mean first Gungans and now, younglings? C'mon give poor Grievous some victories. I think we need more of what we saw on Dathomir, more Grievous butt kicking, he's got it in him, he's just gotta use it.

But yeah, those are the only things I really can complain about concerning this series. That's it.

(And I really hope people will stop hating on the New Mandalorians, that faction has proven its worth and ingenuity as a plot device, as I said it would. )

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
01.28.2013 , 11:51 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I completely agree with the OP, people hate on TCW and they have reasons to criticise it, but frankly, the positives far outweigh the negatives. The way I see it there are two problems with this show:

At times, its a little cheesy. Yeah its aimed at kids, its on Cartoon Network (soon to be moved to Disney Channel) its gonna have a bit of a cheesy funk to it. But I can get other that. Still it does irk me sometimes, oh well.

The bad guys are pretty weak at times e.g. General Grievous. Who while being totally awesome and brilliantly characterized as the archetypal mustache twirling villain (which, lets face it, he is) does seem to lose, all the time. I can understand this, and IMO this is one real thing that needs to be corrected. In terms of good vs bad, I think the latest episodes have rectified the problem, Maul and Oppress kick butt and several good guys have been felled. But GG is still losing. I mean first Gungans and now, younglings? C'mon give poor Grievous some victories. I think we need more of what we saw on Dathomir, more Grievous butt kicking, he's got it in him, he's just gotta use it.

But yeah, those are the only things I really can complain about concerning this series. That's it.

(And I really hope people will stop hating on the New Mandalorians, that faction has proven its worth and ingenuity as a plot device, as I said it would. )
The biggest problem is they could not focus on good ideas well enough, the Maul arc is a perfect example of it. They could make season 5 focus on them but instead we got those ****** arcs(especially the droid arc!) and ran out of time, so everything is too rushed in last 2 episodes.

turnoverla-page's Avatar


turnoverla-page
01.28.2013 , 12:48 PM | #8
i like tcw to as although it seems childish at times it does fill in a lot of action and you can not say the maul vizsla fight was childish + its expanding fan base in to younger generations, kind of like the prequels, although there is a lot of hate for jaja he was my favorite character when i was younger, although he is not now, he got me in to star wars

CassusVerda's Avatar


CassusVerda
01.28.2013 , 02:10 PM | #9
Mostly the Retcons. Well for me at least I can't speak for others. I know a lot of people have mixed feelings about the EU (not one of them), but I still think a lot of stories from The Clone Wars are inferior to the ones their replacing from the EU. Ex. I for one....liked Alpha from Republic, he was much more a Badarse than Rex if you ask me.
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turnoverla-page's Avatar


turnoverla-page
01.28.2013 , 02:54 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by CassusVerda View Post
Mostly the Retcons. Well for me at least I can't speak for others. I know a lot of people have mixed feelings about the EU (not one of them), but I still think a lot of stories from The Clone Wars are inferior to the ones their replacing from the EU. Ex. I for one....liked Alpha from Republic, he was much more a Badarse than Rex if you ask me.
i know they did take alpha away for a stupid reason (to much alteration anikan, ashoka and alpha) but i think rex is a worthy replacment