Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

With all due respect, remove intercede to stealthed friendlies

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
With all due respect, remove intercede to stealthed friendlies

Master_Nate's Avatar


Master_Nate
01.28.2013 , 10:18 AM | #11
I like these twists in PvP myself. If a stealth class can sap (8 sec) and capture the node in AH(6 sec) it makes for a more interesting match. It is the same with huttball to me with a Jugg/Guardian interceding to a stealth class.

They both seem so wrong but it makes those games more interesting, no?
IMPERIAL AGENT
Nodo/Yonder
Lobsters go PEENCH PEENCH
Prophecy of the Five

iDraxter's Avatar


iDraxter
01.28.2013 , 10:31 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Master_Nate View Post
I like these twists in PvP myself. If a stealth class can sap (8 sec) and capture the node in AH(6 sec) it makes for a more interesting match. It is the same with huttball to me with a Jugg/Guardian interceding to a stealth class.

They both seem so wrong but it makes those games more interesting, no?
replace interesting with very very hard to counter(huttball), for the sap and cap its super easy to counter as long as the guard is not brain dead(and u know enemies has only 1 stealth if they have 2+ then not keeping 2 guards is a instant u deserve to lose move) always stay at a minimum of 11meters from pylon/node/door and if u are a vulnerable class(not a stealther or have god mode CD`s) that would 100% die in a duel with an operative/sin openning on u simply lure/kite him away from the pylon/node/door thus buying shtloads of time for reinforcements, sadly all noobs stay right on top of the pylon or under 10 meters and that s a free cap for any decent stealther
Firebat: Need a light?
It`s your money-but if I have spent as much time killing Jedi instead of your own kind...you might be winning this war

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
01.28.2013 , 10:36 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Master_Nate View Post
I like these twists in PvP myself. If a stealth class can sap (8 sec) and capture the node in AH(6 sec) it makes for a more interesting match. It is the same with huttball to me with a Jugg/Guardian interceding to a stealth class.

They both seem so wrong but it makes those games more interesting, no?
You need some skill to pull it off on AH against a decent defender. It can be shutdown with 2 defending players.

On huttball it's a matter of 1-2 GCD and the jug is already in position to score.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

Master_Nate's Avatar


Master_Nate
01.28.2013 , 10:48 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
You need some skill to pull it off on AH against a decent defender. It can be shutdown with 2 defending players.

On huttball it's a matter of 1-2 GCD and the jug is already in position to score.
I tell you what ...in this case I think you do bring up a valid argument and I'm not against what you propose. I think this mechanic could use some tweaking as well. I have an Operative healer and therefore understand this argument and it's a valid one.

I don't withdraw my terminology that it does make for a more interesting game but I will agree that it should be looked at and adjusted to better the PvP system as a whole.

P.S. I don't think the AH sap cap takes that much skill tbh, I think it just takes having a dunce guarding
IMPERIAL AGENT
Nodo/Yonder
Lobsters go PEENCH PEENCH
Prophecy of the Five

Ridickilis's Avatar


Ridickilis
01.28.2013 , 10:53 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Jeeez, a bunch of stealthers being lazy to decloak come and defend this crap. That's some nice arguments you brought here.

And If it's not a significant change why be so against to remove it?
I don't think it's an issue of them being lazy, they want to remain stealthed so they can continue hanging around the end zone in peace.

Just throwing it out there, but perhaps a good compromise may be that once they get interceeded to they are automatically decloaked.

adiwantinova's Avatar


adiwantinova
01.28.2013 , 11:14 AM | #16
My opinion is from two points of view:

(1) As a Guardian tank running the Huttball:

To Guardian Leap to a friendly stealth class on the ledge in Huttball is often half the battle. 90% of the time, I am immediately pulled back to the pit by an assassin or PT. so, does it really matter? Not really. In any truly competitive pvp, this is almost a non-factor because you're almost assured that this alone will not guarantee a score in Huttball.

(2) As a Sage healer, defending against this:

I actually don't mind it either. Frankly, a Guardian or Jugg that is being pummeled on in the pit walking to a ledge is essentially telegraphing that there is a stealth class they are looking to intercede/guardian leap to on the goal line. Most will walk in a direct line to the stealthed player, with no deception at all about where they intend to be -- on your ledge where the stealth player is hiding.

Great Guardians/Juggs will actually work to a diagonal vantage point to a stealthed player, and then Guardian Leap/Intercede under the center catwalk ramp, etc. instead of telegraphing where they're going.

99% of the time on defense, I work the high ground (paying attention to LOS, so that I'm not being leaped at by the ball carrier) and get on my goal line on the side of the catwalk ramp in which they are traveling.

I lay in wait & as soon as they either (a) leap up, or (b) pass up, I'm in the perfect position to use a force push on both players, sending them back into the pit where my team can dismantle them.

Defense against stealth in the EZ isn't that hard. It just takes situational awareness.

In either scenario, I would say taking this out of the game is a total request for a crutch and an unnecessary nerf that would only prolong matches.

I'd veto this request.
ADI-WAN TINOVA
Adi-Wan, Sentinel | Theresee, Sage | Kahlvin, Guardian
The Shadowlands | <RotJ> | <Triumph>

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
01.28.2013 , 11:36 AM | #17
it adds utility to the stealth classes. taking that away hurts the viability of assassins and, especially, operatives, not the juggs.

but I tell you what, let's make your roots observe resolve and we can talk about guardian leaps to a stealth target.

in all seriousness, though, this point was already brought up, should he be able to intercede to your sniper under cover? if your answer is yes, then you're just another me me me kid who wants all the toys. if your answer is no, then I'll at least respect you for not being a me me me kid, but I'd rather not give up the one utility scrappers have in that wz. not that my opinion matters to you in either case. but there it is.
A legacy of meh
Krackerjäck/Krackerjak (VG/PT) | Krackerjack/Deinon (Mando/Merc) | Deìnon (Jugg) | other stuffs
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Master_Nate's Avatar


Master_Nate
01.28.2013 , 11:40 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
it adds utility to the stealth classes. taking that away hurts the viability of assassins and, especially, operatives, not the juggs.
This is an excellent point, just wanted to comment about that!
IMPERIAL AGENT
Nodo/Yonder
Lobsters go PEENCH PEENCH
Prophecy of the Five

cycao's Avatar


cycao
01.28.2013 , 11:45 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
it adds utility to the stealth classes. taking that away hurts the viability of assassins and, especially, operatives, not the juggs.

but I tell you what, let's make your roots observe resolve and we can talk about guardian leaps to a stealth target.

in all seriousness, though, this point was already brought up, should he be able to intercede to your sniper under cover? if your answer is yes, then you're just another me me me kid who wants all the toys. if your answer is no, then I'll at least respect you for not being a me me me kid, but I'd rather not give up the one utility scrappers have in that wz. not that my opinion matters to you in either case. but there it is.
When I am running dps for my sin this is what I do unless my team is lacking on damage and controlling mid. I will always try to place myself ahead of the carrier for passes or intercedes. My guildleader and I do this often where I will get ahead and he will get the jump with myself never leaving stealth, against a bad team we cannot be stopped, against a good team the jig is up after the 2nd score and we adjust tactics.

It can be stopped but it amazes me how many teams I see that allow a stealth to stay in their endzone with no effort to deal with it.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
01.28.2013 , 11:49 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by adiwantinova View Post
My opinion is from two points of view:

(1) As a Guardian tank running the Huttball:

To Guardian Leap to a friendly stealth class on the ledge in Huttball is often half the battle. 90% of the time, I am immediately pulled back to the pit by an assassin or PT. so, does it really matter? Not really. In any truly competitive pvp, this is almost a non-factor because you're almost assured that this alone will not guarantee a score in Huttball.

(2) As a Sage healer, defending against this:

I actually don't mind it either. Frankly, a Guardian or Jugg that is being pummeled on in the pit walking to a ledge is essentially telegraphing that there is a stealth class they are looking to intercede/guardian leap to on the goal line. Most will walk in a direct line to the stealthed player, with no deception at all about where they intend to be -- on your ledge where the stealth player is hiding.

Great Guardians/Juggs will actually work to a diagonal vantage point to a stealthed player, and then Guardian Leap/Intercede under the center catwalk ramp, etc. instead of telegraphing where they're going.

99% of the time on defense, I work the high ground (paying attention to LOS, so that I'm not being leaped at by the ball carrier) and get on my goal line on the side of the catwalk ramp in which they are traveling.

I lay in wait & as soon as they either (a) leap up, or (b) pass up, I'm in the perfect position to use a force push on both players, sending them back into the pit where my team can dismantle them.

Defense against stealth in the EZ isn't that hard. It just takes situational awareness.

In either scenario, I would say taking this out of the game is a total request for a crutch and an unnecessary nerf that would only prolong matches.

I'd veto this request.
The crutch is the stealther staying in his own comfort on the goal line without having to reveal himself to allow for intercede.by not revealing himself he still has access to all stealth openers, in case of deception he gets to keep his 25% DR for moments he will actually consider engaging somebody.

The defending team should be allowed to actually prevent your intercede than to wait for you to jump then react. Force pulling you, still leaves room for stealther to decloak and get the pass, while in the other situation it would allow for defenders to deny this attempt by pulling the decloaked stealther before you intercede to it, which is balanced, and its the way how passing and intercepting the passes works in this game. It makes the overall battle more dynamic instead of having to rely on you having guaranteed jump beacons.

Dont lecture me about stealther hide'n'seek. If one is getting busted its his fault most of the time, you will not kick out of stealth anybody by random. Stop BS ppl that staying in stealth is so difficult.

No matter how you try to make it sound balanced it is not because there are two contradictig mechanics: a stealther cannot get the ball while stealthed but can be interceded to while stealthed. What makes your own case more special than that? How much more team work does intercede provide compared to a normal ball bass that it requires such an exempt? I understand if this was something that would require extra team work compared to regular pass, and thus need to be rewared with a special case in the game rules. But it is not. It is currently a mechanics that bypasses game rules.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.