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Smash isn't that bad

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Smash isn't that bad

Hexdoll's Avatar


Hexdoll
01.27.2013 , 10:41 AM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by vermura View Post
Please explain why the smash needs to be the hardest hitting attack, and AOE, and automatically crit all while being able to hit up to 5 targets. Compare it to death field.

Death field is a talent. Smash is baseline.
You cannot reduce death fields cool down. You can spec to reduce smashs cooldown, and proc even more reductions.
Death field can hit up to 3 targets. Smash can hit up to 5 targets.
Death field's critical chance is never anywhere near 100%. It's trivial to make smash critically hit every single time it's used.
Death field on a full warhero sorc can crit for about 4.5k, with a critical hit chance of about 35%.
Smash can crit for 7.5k or more. When I say "can", what I really mean is it WILL crit every single time.
Death field has a 30m range. Smash has a 5m range, however, force leap has a 30m range, and it makes smash auto-crit, so in practice, the range difference is almost irrelevant.

There is a very simple reason why people say smash is over powered.

It is.

Of course, that isn't the whole story. Fact: one spec in this game has 4 moves that all hit for more then 5k. That same class also has the hardest hitting attack in the game, that can hit up to 5 targets. The same class also has arguably the best defensive cooldowns in the game.
Fact: no other class has multiple moves in the same spec that can hit for over 5k, some classes have no such moves with any spec.
I don't even death field recruits for 4.5k at nearly 900 FP, *** am i doing wrong there?

J-showdo's Avatar


J-showdo
01.28.2013 , 08:51 AM | #122
theres so many ways to avoid smash its not even funny.. they are very predictable..
J-showdo
-I AM LEGEND-

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
01.28.2013 , 09:16 AM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Greeve View Post
Uhhh you mark healers and try to kill them first....I'm not seeing the problem here.
(This was in response to my point that suggesting we focus fire, taunt and control the smashers is a hint that they are unbalanced).

There is a big difference between a healer and a dps. A healer left unpressured can dramatically change the course of a skirmish. And this is how it should be, or else why have healers. They are a vital part of the meta-game.

On the other hand, when you single out a dps and say, "They are not so bad to deal with. Just focus all your dps, taunts and controlling effects on them. Simple!" that's a big tip off that something is wrong. If the classes were balanced, all dps would be equally dangerous, with each maybe having a situational advantage (e.g., snipers in huttball)
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.

haksilence's Avatar


haksilence
01.28.2013 , 09:29 AM | #124
+1 to this post. I don't even play a knight or warrior and I agree. They aren't that hard to deal with its just when you let them roam free is when they bend you over. Learn his to deal with them and stop running around like ants in a rain storm and many you want get so wet.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
01.28.2013 , 09:43 AM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by J-showdo View Post
theres so many ways to avoid smash its not even funny.. they are very predictable..
Avoid it?! Please...enlighten us. How can people avoid being rooted and smashed?
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force

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Dreadgos's Avatar


Dreadgos
01.28.2013 , 09:44 AM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by haksilence View Post
+1 to this post. I don't even play a knight or warrior and I agree. They aren't that hard to deal with its just when you let them roam free is when they bend you over. Learn his to deal with them and stop running around like ants in a rain storm and many you want get so wet.
I guess you are playing either pyrotech or sin then. If you are one of those smash isn't a problem but for the rest of us that want to play something else smash needs a nerf.

Mournblood's Avatar


Mournblood
01.28.2013 , 12:40 PM | #127
Most of the time (not always), players calling for nerfs have little understanding of how the class works and therefore how to counter it because they simply haven't taken the time to find out, or are making uninformed assumptions, or they simply aren't capable of learning how. Rage Marauders are definitely in this category. While this spec is certainly the most resilient and the easiest to play of the three specs, it is also the most susceptible to Sorc stun bubbles, knockbacks, and snares/roots. Here's why:

Contrary to popular misconception, Rage Marauders only have 1 leap effectively. Force Charge and Obliterate (both are leaps) operate on different ranges, the former requiring the target to be farther than 10m and the latter requiring the target to be less than 10m. The two of them together essentially perform the same function as the Close Quarters talent in the Annhiliation tree. For most end-game PvP Marauders, they will be using the Vindicator set for the 4pc set bonus that grants +10% to damage for 5 seconds following a Force Charge. A Mara with 4 stacks of Shockwave wearing Vindicator who Force Charges is the one who's going to Smash for 7k+ on low Expertise targets, and around 5k+ on high Expertise targets. The problem with that is with Sorc stun bubbles so prevalent in PvP now, Force Charge against someone who's bubbled will pop the bubble and stun the Mara before he can get off his Smash. Knockbacks have the same effect and will prevent the Mara from getting Smash off, or it will go off after he's out of range of the target.

The other major weakness of this spec is snares/roots. Against competent players, they can simply keep you snared or rooted and stay out of range of Smash. With no way to break snares/roots without wasting Break Free, the Rage Mara has to wait for Charge or Obliterate, depending on range, to come off cooldown (15 seconds). Then he can leap to the target again but may be stunned or knocked back as soon as he does and be snared/rooted again. Even if he can get off Smash each time his leap is off cooldown, that typically won't be sufficient DPS to kill anyone if they are getting healed or are a healer themselves. With Obliterate, the Rage Mara can reduce its cooldown by 1 second for every assault ability he uses, but the only assault ability that is ranged is Force Scream (I don't believe Deadly Throw counts as an assault ability, but I could be wrong). What that means is that he might be able to reduce the cooldown of his leap under 10m, but if you're staying more than 10m from him while keeping him snared/rooted, he'll be forced to wait on Force Charge (15 secs) each time.

Rage Maras shine in WZs like Voidstar where fights are often clustered around the doors, and they have great synergy with other Rage specs because of the amount of combined damage pressure they can put on the opposition. That said, most serious Rated teams will not take a Rage Mara. They'll take a Carnage Mara instead for the increased Predation, but will take other DPS classes over a second Marauder if available. Basically, if you can keep a Rage Mara snared/rooted, have Sorc bubbles and/or knockbacks, they are fairly impotent. If there is more than one Rage spec on the opposing team (Juggs and Maras), avoid clustering up and you'll significantly limit their potential effectiveness. Keep those things in mind that I've mentioned, and you'll find them to be very manageable and far less of a problem.

Hope that helps!

Darth-Rammstein's Avatar


Darth-Rammstein
01.28.2013 , 03:44 PM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Avoid it?! Please...enlighten us. How can people avoid being rooted and smashed?
knockback or stun...I don't play my jugg too often but on a few occasions some people with a brain actually used their knockbacks at an appropriate time and ruined the smash...of course it's far easier to just hop on the forums and complain instead of perhaps learning a new strategy to countering smash.
Belgoth's Beacon ----> The Fatman ----> Prophecy of the Five

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
01.28.2013 , 03:52 PM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Rammstein View Post
knockback or stun...I don't play my jugg too often but on a few occasions some people with a brain actually used their knockbacks at an appropriate time and ruined the smash...of course it's far easier to just hop on the forums and complain instead of perhaps learning a new strategy to countering smash.
I try that, but there is one spec out there that has an immunity to KB after leap, isn't there? Haven't done my guardian yet, but know it is there somewhere.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
01.28.2013 , 03:55 PM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth-Rammstein View Post
knockback or stun...I don't play my jugg too often but on a few occasions some people with a brain actually used their knockbacks at an appropriate time and ruined the smash...of course it's far easier to just hop on the forums and complain instead of perhaps learning a new strategy to countering smash.
OK...so the mid flying air stun is pretty effective? Or the knockback while the guy is in the air?! You really think the server sync is good enough for that to be a viable strategy? You realize, I'm rooted as he leaps to me right? Unable to even pretend to KB or area mez...but you think that any "smart player" should sit there, not using any specials because 1 channeled or ANY GCD attack would allow for that split second jump/leap...instead we should all sit back and anticipate the smash...right?
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force

My referral code: here (what you get here)