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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

CommunitySupport's Avatar


CommunitySupport
01.25.2013 , 11:23 AM | #1
Because the previous thread has exceeded our normal threshold for thread length, we've started this new thread for the community to discuss this topic. We also updated the title to be more general.

As always, we ask that the community keep the following things on mind when responding:
  1. No insults, name calling, or personal attacks
  2. Please stay on topic.
  3. Please express your opinion and thoughts in a constructive, respectful manner.
  4. If someone violates the Rules of Conduct, please report it instead of replying to it.
  5. Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Report function to report their post.
  6. Please note that we may remove replies to moderated posts that have been removed.
  7. Please do not discuss real world politics or social commentary. We know that this is a sensitive issue for some folks, and we ask that you do not bring in political or social commentary about this topic.
  8. Same gender romance/flirt options have been confirmed for Rise of the Hutt Cartel and beyond, per Jeff Hickman's State of the Blog #2. Players are more than welcome to express their opinions about this, but please do so while being respectful of each other.

Thank you and enjoy the discussion!

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
01.25.2013 , 11:26 AM | #2
Taking it here from the old thread....

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
So, ME 1 and 2 at the least targeted every demographic for romances except gay males (untill ME3), and the player base was still 82% picking male shepard.
Again, can you produce a link that supports that? Does that source also evaluate how many female players played male Shep and how many males played femShep? Because I played male Shep .... and I'm female. Via mod. How does the "statistic" take that into account?

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Now, if they can determine how many people selected male shepard over a female Shepard, one would think they could find out the romance options selected just as easily.
Yes, they can, and it would help them how? Because it doesn't give them any clue about player demographics unless they have knowledge that helps them evaluate whether the player chosing a certain option is male/female/gay/bi etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
and if male/male option was high on the romance option, don't you think they'd blink, go OMG, and then start cramming more of it into the game.
And they would implement it into a finished game how? Because by the time they would evaluate that, people already own the game. And male/male option was implemented into ME resulting from player feedback and, I guess, from them evaluating how many people played modded Sheps in order to be able to romance the same gender. Why else would they have added it for the last part of the series?

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
...purely for the sake of more money (which many agree the point of the cartel market is them wanting more money).
Were we talking about SWTOR? Because you seemed to be talking about ME all the time. In that case, well, I guess Bioware Austin is just learning how well 'pay-to-gay' is received (not well.... and we're not even talking about 'real pay-to-gay' here) and they will certainly evaluate how many people will use SGR content once it's in the game. Will that necessarily influence their decision of implementing more SGR content in the future? We don't know. Your guess is as good as mine here.

DarkTrooperV's Avatar


DarkTrooperV
01.25.2013 , 11:34 AM | #3
I guess all we can do now is just....wait and see. As we use to say in the Hold The Line movement for Mass Effect 3 regarding the ending: "Speculation for Everyone". And that all we can do right now is speculate. Doesn't make it true though. I'm just happy we got an answer. I hope that our companions will be SGRA soon. But as Obi Wan said to Luke: Patience, young Skywalker.

Even though I know that's really hard right now. Even for me.

Keep the fath, my friends. Keep the faith.
"So this is how liberty dies. With thunderous applause." -Padme Amadala "You were the Chosen One! It was said you were to destroy the Sith! Not join them!" -Obi Wan Kenobi RIP: Star Wars Galaxies. You will be missed.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.25.2013 , 12:35 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Taking it here from the old thread....

Again, can you produce a link that supports that? Does that source also evaluate how many female players played male Shep and how many males played femShep? Because I played male Shep .... and I'm female. Via mod. How does the "statistic" take that into account?

Yes, they can, and it would help them how? Because it doesn't give them any clue about player demographics unless they have knowledge that helps them evaluate whether the player chosing a certain option is male/female/gay/bi etc.

And they would implement it into a finished game how? Because by the time they would evaluate that, people already own the game. And male/male option was implemented into ME resulting from player feedback and, I guess, from them evaluating how many people played modded Sheps in order to be able to romance the same gender. Why else would they have added it for the last part of the series?

Were we talking about SWTOR? Because you seemed to be talking about ME all the time. In that case, well, I guess Bioware Austin is just learning how well 'pay-to-gay' is received (not well.... and we're not even talking about 'real pay-to-gay' here) and they will certainly evaluate how many people will use SGR content once it's in the game. Will that necessarily influence their decision of implementing more SGR content in the future? We don't know. Your guess is as good as mine here.
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/a...e-shepard.aspx

There's the link on percentage who picked male/female shepard for you.

I was using ME as an example, which BW is still BW, so you'd think they'd talk, and then beable to implement things on projects in their other games.

While I doubt they can get an accurate level of gender/orientation of player through game play, and would have to rely on more of a polling system. There's some things they can take from what they can tell and use other industries examples as a reference as well.

You hear groups say "If this is an option, more of this group would buy it"

Well, it is an option, and if the options aren't being used all that much to make a noticable change in profits, why put the time and effort into it?

I'm not oppossed to options or diversity. I'm not oppossed to putting things into a game only a tiny percentage of players will use that will show no significant reason on why it was worth the time to put in. I just don't get upset if it's not put in and can see why they didn't, and let's be fair here, there were plenty of people in the other thread who only saw it as "I'm hated and/or not catered to" rather than just calmly saying "You know, I'd love to see this implemented in the game, can we make this happen?"

As for my guess on how many used the male/male option on ME3 (not using it on modded version), was lots of discussions with lots of different people and so more on a personal experience (RL friends of various genders/orientations and discussions in huge chat channels with people claiming to be various genders/orientations. Note: I say claiming, cause I know for a fact there are those who claim to be something in game and aren't).

And to just add, I'm not a concerned troll as I was called in the other thread. And I'm not anti-gay community (if I was, I'd be curious as to my RL and especially manga collection), which I think a few in the other thread think. I will admit, I may lack tact, and I will admit to not being the type who will say "do this to support the minority just to support the minority" which can, in online discussions, possibly make me seem like a bad person in some peoples eyes (I'm really not, I promise).

And you're right (and I don't think I ever denied it) some of what I've said is guesses. As for my guess when SGR is implemented. Male/Female romances will dominate. Female/Female will come in second. Male/Male will come in a distant third in chosen option.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
01.25.2013 , 12:38 PM | #5
In my opinion (I am heterosexual btw) the in-game same sex romances would be okay. I am pretty sure most of us guys find lesbian romances just as pleasing and acceptable as normal ones. I have 6 female characters and I couldn't finish the romances on those characters (well I just can't do it with male companions). If there was a same sex romance option I could finish those too.

As for those who are repulsed by this option you could just make an option in setting to ignore same sex flirt options.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.25.2013 , 12:41 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkTrooperV View Post
I guess all we can do now is just....wait and see. As we use to say in the Hold The Line movement for Mass Effect 3 regarding the ending: "Speculation for Everyone". And that all we can do right now is speculate. Doesn't make it true though. I'm just happy we got an answer. I hope that our companions will be SGRA soon. But as Obi Wan said to Luke: Patience, young Skywalker.

Even though I know that's really hard right now. Even for me.

Keep the fath, my friends. Keep the faith.
Keeping the faith is just about all I can do right now and it IS hard. I can't help but feel Bioware are secretly planning on screwing us over somehow, even with all their well wishes.

Anyway, as to Makeb, what do people think is the likelihood that lesbian [Flirt]s will outnumber straight women [Flirt]s?


Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
As for those who are repulsed by this option you could just make an option in setting to ignore same sex flirt options.
Toggles to turn off same-sex options are considered discriminatory and Bioware will not implement, nor entertain their discussion. Besides, there is already an option to not [Flirt] with someone - don't hit the button.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.25.2013 , 12:49 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Keeping the faith is just about all I can do right now and it IS hard. I can't help but feel Bioware are secretly planning on screwing us over somehow, even with all their well wishes.

Anyway, as to Makeb, what do people think is the likelihood that lesbian [Flirt]s will outnumber straight women [Flirt]s?




Toggles to turn off same-sex options are considered discriminatory and Bioware will not implement, nor entertain their discussion. Besides, there is already an option to not [Flirt] with someone - don't hit the button.
Oooo...tough one on that. I was actually thinking if they implemented SGR flirts, they might try to go heavier on the male/male route OR just give an even split, but with your question there, it makes me wonder, if they might have not chosen to add any OGR flirt options in Makeb (likely doubtful, but you never know).

Also agreed. If you don't think your character would flirt with the NPC, just don't pick the flirt option. However, I could see the option of a toggle that disables all romance options period.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.25.2013 , 01:05 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Oooo...tough one on that. I was actually thinking if they implemented SGR flirts, they might try to go heavier on the male/male route OR just give an even split, but with your question there, it makes me wonder, if they might have not chosen to add any OGR flirt options in Makeb (likely doubtful, but you never know).
No, they won't scrap OGR [Flirt]s on Makeb because then all the SGRA and general romance detractors will complain about the "favouritism" and "oppression" of straight people. I ask about lesbian vs. straight women [Flirt]s because some people still labour under the assumption that only pervy straight-men play female characters and there absolutely no real lesbians whatsoever, and real women players are made of wishes and tinfoil - I'm hoping that such a perception has not infected the writing staff of Bioware: Asutin, but the lack of straight-women [Flirt]s is still a problem.

To be honest, I am rather expecting the [Flirt]s options to favour straight men, then lesbians, straight women and then gay men. You can probably guess my reasoning for this quite easily.

Edit: I had 650 posts in the previous thread XD And I came into half-way through!

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.25.2013 , 01:30 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
No, they won't scrap OGR [Flirt]s on Makeb because then all the SGRA and general romance detractors will complain about the "favouritism" and "oppression" of straight people. I ask about lesbian vs. straight women [Flirt]s because some people still labour under the assumption that only pervy straight-men play female characters and there absolutely no real lesbians whatsoever, and real women players are made of wishes and tinfoil - I'm hoping that such a perception has not infected the writing staff of Bioware: Asutin, but the lack of straight-women [Flirt]s is still a problem.

To be honest, I am rather expecting the [Flirt]s options to favour straight men, then lesbians, straight women and then gay men. You can probably guess my reasoning for this quite easily.

Edit: I had 650 posts in the previous thread XD And I came into half-way through!
It was just a thought on the no OGR flirts, one I doubted, but thought of the possibility of it.

In my experience, you can't judge what a person will play based on their gender. I know there are men who will only play men (And if they played a female, they quickly disregarded the character). I know there are men who play women strictly as there are men players who will play both. I know of women who play strictly women characters. I know of women who play male characters only (and not because of "I dont want to be treated as a female gamer or stalked"). And of course women players who play play both sexes on the characters.

This is why when I play a MMO, I always refere to the player by the gender of their avatar I know them by. I never ask for their RL gender (I just don't care), and will only find out if they say something in chat (which isn't always truthful anyways, as I've also seen the come out). I've also seen people refere to player self by the gender of their main and what thusly what the group knows them by (by both gender of players).

Which is likely why you hear the term Many Men Online Role Playing Girls as a way for the male players to feel as if they're protecting themselves. But then, if they didn't think to use a MMO as a dating service, what do they did to protect themself from? And if they're roleplaying, wouldn't it be the character concept that's important and not the player behind it?

My guess, I think BW will play it safe. I think we're going to see an equal number of OGR/SGR flirt options in all directions.

jmqqer's Avatar


jmqqer
01.25.2013 , 02:16 PM | #10
This whole controversy about SGR has surprised me greatly. I don't think it should be a big issue. RPGs (yes, even MMOs) are supposed to provide players with flexibility and choice when creating their characters and conducting their personal narrative, and these romance options provide just that. The world is filled with all kinds of people: heterosexual, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transexual, and all of these groups (although some intolerant people may claim otherwise) play videogames and would want to express their own identity in the virtual world, or in some cases, just try something different. For instance, I'm a heterosexual male but I happily played a lesbian Shepard in ME because it provides for a compelling narrative and moral twist. People who are taking offense with this decision by BioWare should be reminded it's just an option provided to everyone, but absolutely no one is forced to play a gay character if he/she is not willing to. Is it absolutely necessary for the game? Of course not. Is it a nice role-playing choice for a portion of the game's fanbase? Absolutely. People should be a little bit more tolerant and respect every SWTOR player.


"My time here is ended. Take what I have taught you and use it well." - Darth Revan