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No Country for PVP gear.


Irxyyy's Avatar


Irxyyy
01.25.2013 , 01:12 AM | #21
They should remove the expertise stat from the game altogether, the reasoning behind its existence is flawed anyway.
// believing is bleeding

xGBox's Avatar


xGBox
01.25.2013 , 01:50 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ufarax View Post
The post refers to my likes and dislikes. I will not heal a PVP geared tank or DPS. I don't ask them to leave the group, nor do I instigate a vote to kick. I tell them "I don't heal PVP geared tanks and DPS". I then quit the group. I have 2 healers and 3 DPS ( all campaign and better). When I leave 1 group...I re log and rinse and repeat. As for tionese geared players...they tend to try harder and wipe less. For all the healers who will heal the geared impaired...God bless you.
It's certainly your prerogative to do so. If you feel that it's the principle that no player should bring PvP gear to PvE content then by all means. However, as someone who has healed just about all content and after having researched the viability of PvP gear in PvE environments, I will obviously still choose the most competent player whenever possible but I will not shoo away a person just because he is wearing PvP gear that roughly matches the gear required for the content. If you claim that you don't want a challenge then, gear wise, bringing a War Hero player is significantly better than a Tionese player on all counts including Health and overall damage.
Sincerely,
Gearbox
The Software Legacy

POPsi's Avatar


POPsi
01.25.2013 , 03:29 AM | #23
crybabies... I tanked all these ops in half DPS (EV/KP HM, EC/TFB SM) WH gear (don't have a full tank set), and did just fine. Yeah, should I put on tionese gear...don't think so. In my dps set I pull aggro all the time from columi geared tanks.

TripleMe's Avatar


TripleMe
01.25.2013 , 04:13 AM | #24
There is too much emphasis on gear in this game. Its unfortunate, but understandable. Gear is something you can see upfront whereas player skill can only be judged ex-post. That said, the gear requirements are quite low in this game. Everything upto EC and TFB SM can be done in recruit gear.

I have healed EV HM in full recruit (freshly dinged 50 alt) and KP HM with a couple of pieces for Rakata / Columi gear I got from the EV HM run. It was not even hard to heal too. A guildmate has tanked EC SM in recruit too, all through Kephess. We have even run TFB HM with a PUG healer in Columi / Rakata mixed (our guild is perennially healer short ).

uniz's Avatar


uniz
01.25.2013 , 04:15 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by xGBox View Post
I've aggregated some numbers for you guys and I can give some answers on when PvP gear can be used in lieu of full PvE gear.

Using a DPS marauder, I compiled the following builds PvE and PvP builds, using stock modifications and with a small emphasis on Strength and Power when given the option (e.g. in implants and relics):

Tionese
Columi
Rakata
Black Hole MK-1
Campaign
Dread Guard
Recruit MK-2
War Hero
Elite War Hero
Tionese/MK2 Hybrid (for fresh 50s with 99x Tionese Commendations and free MK-2 gear)

Alternatively, you can read the combined stats of all the builds through this spreadsheet that I crudely made.

With the numbers side by side, we can make some reasonable hypotheses:

1. Full Recruit MK-2 players can complete most Tier 1 HM flashpoints and Tier 1 SM operations (as DPS). The overall base damage between full Tionese and Full Recruit MK-2 are pretty close. The Tionese build will be slightly better because the relics are on-use, which will give short periods of additional DPS. A Tionese/Recruit hybrid will output considerably more damage than a person in full Tionese, but will still be slightly below a full Columi player.

2. Full War Hero players can complete all flashpoints and all Tier 1 operations on any difficulty, EC SM and TFB SM (as DPS). War Hero players can actually out-DPS Rakata players. If the Rakata player used the on-proc relics whenever it was available, the DPS difference may not be that significant.

3. You should not bring War Hero gear to EC HM or TFB HM (as DPS). While the evidence suggests that you should be able meet the DPS requirements for these operations, other factors such as your health will start to reduce your overall survivability in most boss fights, which typically require players to take damage no matter how good you are. The uselessness of expertise in PvE content are highlighted significantly in these modes and only gets worse as you progress through the operation.

4. PvP gear has no place in EC NiM. Don't even try.

I have not compiled numbers for tanks and healers but the results should be roughly similar. I only did DPS because that is the majority of most players.

Remember, gear is not the end-all factor to determining a player's ability to complete PvE content. If three players in Tionese/Recruit gear can complete HM LI without using companions, you have no excuse.
nice post and thank you for the links. one can draw their own conclusions from them. note that pve healers and dps use the pvp power relics or rather they should. this can realign the power stats but you had to draw a line somewhere for customizing gear. where you did was fine for general comparison purposes.

personally i dont care if a pvper is using his gear for a occasionally ops or hm. but if he is going to do more than that he needs to start collecting pve gear. the same is true for pvers in warfronts.

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar


ChicagoBearsFan
01.25.2013 , 08:24 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
as it is that exact level of elitism that I find abhorrent..
Lol, thank you Mr. English professor for illustrating your own point of "elitism". Brilliantly done!
For being a fan of English I would think you would be familiar with context. The following sentences in my post further explained my "elitist" view that I DON'T think ALL PVP gear is inappropriate, as I stated, player skill is more the determining factor.
But why is it so "abhorrent" for me to be a "little frustrated" when someone shows up for LI HM in recruit PVP Gear or insists on tanking HM KP in partial recruit/WH when the other tank is better geared in PVE gear. Is that so elitist?

Maybe I generalized to much in that specific sentence that you so amazingly over analyzed, but I assumed the rest of my post would be read and my view on the matter would be further clarified. Forgive me for making that mistake. I will endeavor to avoid such absurdities in the future and be sure to run my posts by the editor before doing so. Thanks for setting me straight.
Bearsfan - Commando Healer / DPS
Chicago - Shadow Tank
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LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
01.25.2013 , 09:16 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by ufarax View Post
The post refers to my likes and dislikes. I will not heal a PVP geared tank or DPS. I don't ask them to leave the group, nor do I instigate a vote to kick. I tell them "I don't heal PVP geared tanks and DPS". I then quit the group. I have 2 healers and 3 DPS ( all campaign and better). When I leave 1 group...I re log and rinse and repeat. As for tionese geared players...they tend to try harder and wipe less. For all the healers who will heal the geared impaired...God bless you.
If that's really how you feel, then I'd be glad to see you go. Make sure you tell me why you're leaving so I can put you on ignore first.

To the other people in this who think like rational adults and not absolutist kids, if someone likes to both pvp and pve, there is a pretty good chance they will have some serious PvP comms saved up for when they hit 50. They'll be able to buy a ton of higher-end pvp gear, which will be a lot better than the free Tionese. In short, don't punish people for using the best gear they have.

Quote: Originally Posted by Irxyyy View Post
They should remove the expertise stat from the game altogether, the reasoning behind its existence is flawed anyway.
No they shouldn't; no it isn't.
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mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
01.25.2013 , 09:56 AM | #28
Seriously I could sympathize with the original poster if we were only talking about the harder operations or even HM LI, but if we are including tier 1 HMFP, then as a healer I do not care what you wear as long as a majority of it is level 50 gear. I have gotten placed as a random in other guild runs with 14k hp tanks in green mainly green gear and made it through HM BoI with no problems. Provide the person has some clue about the instances or can follow directions, most HMFP are so easy that gear isnít really a large concern to me. I never even check what others are wearing, because I donít care. Koan is about the only tier 1 where I even think about gear. Most all HMFP go very smoothly and I am the kind of person that considers any death to make a hard mode flash point a failure on my part even if the death did not involve a wipe.

Yes, now, like most of you, when I get an alt to 50 they usually have 61 or better gear waiting, but I have not forgotten doing sm Ops and HMFP on my main and first alt when getting Tionese was a significant upgrade. I would have used pvp gear in an instant had it been free pack then. The only time you should use the word hard when healing a hard mode flashpoint is when you are the fresh 50 in tionese and the dps have gold fever.

LogicalPremise's Avatar


LogicalPremise
01.25.2013 , 08:59 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by ufarax View Post
The post refers to my likes and dislikes. I will not heal a PVP geared tank or DPS. I don't ask them to leave the group, nor do I instigate a vote to kick. I tell them "I don't heal PVP geared tanks and DPS". I then quit the group. I have 2 healers and 3 DPS ( all campaign and better). When I leave 1 group...I re log and rinse and repeat. As for tionese geared players...they tend to try harder and wipe less. For all the healers who will heal the geared impaired...God bless you.
Any chance you could put your healers and server down so I can go ahead and just pre-ignore you?

If you actually think a clown who managed the difficult task of putting on Tionese is worth healing but a guy who's played all the FP/OP's and is gearing up his toon in augmented EWH is going to wipe and is 'gear impaired', I do not want to bother playing with ya.

It's people like this that make this game the QQ filled, whiny MMO purgatory that it is.
Majynn, L55 Sorc - The Society - Harbinger
Garadan, L55 Jugg- Dark Void - Harbinger
Vongrath, L35 Op- Dark Void - Harbinger

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.25.2013 , 10:01 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by ChicagoBearsFan View Post
Lol, thank you Mr. English professor for illustrating your own point of "elitism". Brilliantly done!
For being a fan of English I would think you would be familiar with context. The following sentences in my post further explained my "elitist" view that I DON'T think ALL PVP gear is inappropriate, as I stated, player skill is more the determining factor.
But why is it so "abhorrent" for me to be a "little frustrated" when someone shows up for LI HM in recruit PVP Gear or insists on tanking HM KP in partial recruit/WH when the other tank is better geared in PVE gear. Is that so elitist?

Maybe I generalized to much in that specific sentence that you so amazingly over analyzed, but I assumed the rest of my post would be read and my view on the matter would be further clarified. Forgive me for making that mistake. I will endeavor to avoid such absurdities in the future and be sure to run my posts by the editor before doing so. Thanks for setting me straight.
Heh. My original response was rather mild. The second one was more in reaction to your angry declaration of stupidity you felt I was demonstrating. I suppose I overreacted.

The "abhorrent" comment, actually, was an vast overstatement on my part, sorry.

Your viewpoint doesn't remotely fall under the actual elitism I don't like (unlike that guy who refuses to heal the wrong gear just out of principle).