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No Country for PVP gear.


DrewFromPhilly's Avatar


DrewFromPhilly
01.24.2013 , 02:58 PM | #11
Stop healing and respec to DPS.

You're clearly not much of a healer if someone in pvp gear bothers you this much when war hero is MORE than adequate for sm ops and every hmfp. Or, if you have any trouble healing a HMFP at all in the black hole gear you spent all the time and effort getting.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.24.2013 , 04:02 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by ChicagoBearsFan View Post
... PVP and PVE gear are designed for their respective roles so when someone shows up with the other type of gear it can be a little frustrating to the other members of the team. ...
Frustrating? Seriously?

When that EWH PvP player shows up in your HMFP, you're frustrated because he's not wearing Tionese instead?

Is this some purely philosophical point? It's certainly not a practical one.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
01.24.2013 , 04:11 PM | #13
Well I'm okay with PvP gear as long as it's overkill:
BM gear in SM FE - more than enough
WH gear in HM Foundry - more than enough
EWH gear in HM EV - more than enough.

It's stuff like Recruit in Lost Island that annoys me. I have no problem healing that group if they know what they're doing, but if they can do it in Recruit then they've already done it 3+ times and are just undergearing it for the challenge.
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LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
01.24.2013 , 04:30 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by ufarax View Post
I earned my gear...I had to grind tons of HM FP's for BH COMMS. I'm sick and tired of healing PVP geared tanks and DPS. I don't want a challenge, I want my BH COMMS. Take your PVP gear...and stick it in your locker.
Wow. Just wow. On my scoundrel I have an Elite War Hero main hand and a Columi main hand. Which would you prefer I use?

By the way, lol at you "earning" you gear by running HM FPs for BH comms. As if that system was anything but a way to give people something to grind for so they can outgear content. There is way too little content in this game that gets done at progression-level gearing.
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Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
01.24.2013 , 04:42 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by ufarax View Post
I earned my gear...I had to grind tons of HM FP's for BH COMMS.
You don't earn BH gear by grinding something that can be done in Tionese.
You EARN it by actually having it drop from places like HM EC.
Running the Group Finder every day is easymode and getting comms for 10 minutes of playtime, which means you will probably be one of the worst players ever in full BH gear to run HM EC.

bsbrad's Avatar


bsbrad
01.24.2013 , 06:32 PM | #16
I am a firm believer in the skill > gear argument. Generally any healer whether specced in Full Dreadguard or Tionese, or WH/Recruit shouldn't have any problem with healing a similar specced tank in Tier 1 HM FPs.

Lost Island will obviously be a challenge, plus some of the latter Operations.

Rather than complain about the gear see how they do in the first couple of fights as most of the flashpoints generally have a tough (by the flashpoint standard) fight at the beginning of the flashpoint. Here you will see how well they perform.

Usually the only problems I have ever had when PVPers queue for a HM FP is that they don't know the fights as well as a PVEer but a little patience goes a long way....

As I am a PVE healer who occasionally PVPs I cannot comment too much on queing for PVP in PVE gear (I do it myself sometimes, although I get away with it as I do have a 820+ bonus healing). I would never queue for PVP as a tank or dps without at least some expertise as there is no way I would feel I was pulling my weight.

My 2 cents.....

ChicagoBearsFan's Avatar


ChicagoBearsFan
01.24.2013 , 09:05 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Frustrating? Seriously?

When that EWH PvP player shows up in your HMFP, you're frustrated because he's not wearing Tionese instead?

Is this some purely philosophical point? It's certainly not a practical one.
/palm forehead. Doesn't anyone read a WHOLE post before they make ignorant posts? Hey genius, try going back and reading all of it this time.

Here you go I'll make it easy for you:

Quote: Originally Posted by ChicagoBearsFan View Post
Bottom line... It is more about Player skill than the gear but THERE ARE the people that think just cuz they have PVP gear they are capable of doing all end game PVE content. Is tionese gear better than WH PVP gear... No. Is Some PVP gear better than some PVE gear...yes.
PVP and PVE gear are designed for their respective roles so when someone shows up with the other type of gear it can be a little frustrating to the other members of the team. Is it something to fret over? Usually not. I tend to reserve judgement until I see if they can pull their weight or not. But we have all seen the players show up in the wrong gear that just don't cut it and think it the groups responsibility to carry them. But it does and will continue to happen so there is no use in crying over spilt milk.
Bearsfan - Commando Healer / DPS
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Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.24.2013 , 09:49 PM | #18
Alllllllrighty then. Let's play English professor!
Quote:
PVP and PVE gear are designed for their respective roles so when someone shows up with the other type of gear it can be a little frustrating to the other members of the team
So the first part of this sentence is called a "clause"
Quote:
PVP and PVE gear are designed for their respective roles
So you're saying that PvP gear is design for PvP. Yup. You're also saying that PvE gear is design for PvE. Sounds good!
Quote:
so
"So" is a conjunction that means, "And for this reason; therefore." Example sentence: "it hurt, so I went to see a specialist"

The word "so" is pointing to the second clause.
Quote:
when someone shows up with the other type of gear it can be a little frustrating to the other members of the team
Therefore, this sentence could be restated as:

"When someone in PvE gear shows up in PvP, or someone in PvP gear shows up PvE, it is frustrating, because the gear wasn't designed for that role."

Woot! Almost there ...

An example of this would be someone showing up for a HMFP in EWH gear! Yayy. And because it wasn't designed for that role, it would be frustrating.

Whew!

For bonus points, this example is called a "Reductio ad absurdum", which is used to demonstrate that a statement is false by showing that a false, untenable, or absurd result follows from its acceptance.

Of course, I chose specifically to highlight that one sentence out of your post, as it is that exact level of elitism that I find abhorrent. If anyone cares about gear gating, look at the HP, Armor Rating, Primary Damage and Bonus Healing. It does't matter how much expertise there is on it if the other stats are adequate enough to do the job.

To insist otherwise on purely philosophical grounds "it isn't designed for that" is completely impractical.

You also say,
Quote:
THERE ARE the people that think just cuz they have PVP gear they are capable of doing all end game PVE content
That may be true. Oddly enough, I've never encountered that personally. in the several hundred pugs I've been in, those who showed up in PvP gear ware either a) actually capable of doing PvE content, b) better at doing PvE content that the others in the pug, or c) willing to take advice to get better.

Edit: Of course, I'm not going to convince you to change your mind about anything. But sparring with you has been fun.

Edit Edit: Oh, and the rest of your post I agreed with. But that one sentence just set me off ...

xGBox's Avatar


xGBox
01.25.2013 , 12:43 AM | #19
I've aggregated some numbers for you guys and I can give some answers on when PvP gear can be used in lieu of full PvE gear.

Using a DPS marauder, I compiled the following builds PvE and PvP builds, using stock modifications and with a small emphasis on Strength and Power when given the option (e.g. in implants and relics):

Tionese
Columi
Rakata
Black Hole MK-1
Campaign
Dread Guard
Recruit MK-2
War Hero
Elite War Hero
Tionese/MK2 Hybrid (for fresh 50s with 99x Tionese Commendations and free MK-2 gear)

Alternatively, you can read the combined stats of all the builds through this spreadsheet that I crudely made.

With the numbers side by side, we can make some reasonable hypotheses:

1. Full Recruit MK-2 players can complete most Tier 1 HM flashpoints and Tier 1 SM operations (as DPS). The overall base damage between full Tionese and Full Recruit MK-2 are pretty close. The Tionese build will be slightly better because the relics are on-use, which will give short periods of additional DPS. A Tionese/Recruit hybrid will output considerably more damage than a person in full Tionese, but will still be slightly below a full Columi player.

2. Full War Hero players can complete all flashpoints and all Tier 1 operations on any difficulty, EC SM and TFB SM (as DPS). War Hero players can actually out-DPS Rakata players. If the Rakata player used the on-proc relics whenever it was available, the DPS difference may not be that significant.

3. You should not bring War Hero gear to EC HM or TFB HM (as DPS). While the evidence suggests that you should be able meet the DPS requirements for these operations, other factors such as your health will start to reduce your overall survivability in most boss fights, which typically require players to take damage no matter how good you are. The uselessness of expertise in PvE content are highlighted significantly in these modes and only gets worse as you progress through the operation.

4. PvP gear has no place in EC NiM. Don't even try.

I have not compiled numbers for tanks and healers but the results should be roughly similar. I only did DPS because that is the majority of most players.

Remember, gear is not the end-all factor to determining a player's ability to complete PvE content. If three players in Tionese/Recruit gear can complete HM LI without using companions, you have no excuse.
Sincerely,
Gearbox
The Software Legacy

ufarax's Avatar


ufarax
01.25.2013 , 12:52 AM | #20
The post refers to my likes and dislikes. I will not heal a PVP geared tank or DPS. I don't ask them to leave the group, nor do I instigate a vote to kick. I tell them "I don't heal PVP geared tanks and DPS". I then quit the group. I have 2 healers and 3 DPS ( all campaign and better). When I leave 1 group...I re log and rinse and repeat. As for tionese geared players...they tend to try harder and wipe less. For all the healers who will heal the geared impaired...God bless you.


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