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So if pvp survival gear is useless why keep it in-game?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
So if pvp survival gear is useless why keep it in-game?

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
01.24.2013 , 09:05 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by RaithHarth View Post
So basically what your saying tanks that are wearing dps gear is an exploit design flaw from bioware? interesting
In the case of Shadows and Assassins, he's partially right that there's a flaw. A Tank wearing DPS gear can work, but shouldn't work so well that it's said to be better than full-Tank. In this case, a part of the problem lies in the lack of effectiveness of Tank's stats, and the other part comes from the fact that the spec offers a pretty good synergy with DPS gear.

JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
01.24.2013 , 10:08 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
It was a correction.

You said it works great against Snipers, but it just makes tanks on par with them. This just works.
Tanking stats do not give even a slight statistical advantage against a Marksmanship Sniper who is the only spec dealing near to 100% of their damage through weapon abilities. It's all about luck in RNG.
If you consider their other specs (Engineering and Fatality) you can't say anymore that they're on par, as a part of their DPS is tech, Snipers get a slight upper hand with these specs.
The word "great" was too much because in the best situation, Tanks do not even get a statistical advantage.

And so, stats works just a bit against Jugg/Merc/Mara depending on the spec, as they are all less depedent of weapon damage than snipers.

And yes, defensive stats are near useless against Operatives and Powertechs.
As the two posters following you stated, Operatives do not use weapon damage unless they can't do anything else, and Powertechs only use RailShot as weapon damage ability, an so, most of the half of their damage output comes from Flameburst, Flamethrower, Rocket Punch, Thermal Detonator, Immolate, Retractable Blade and/or other Tech abilities depending on the spec. When your gear doesn't let you be on par for more the half of the overall DPS, you can as well gear yourself with something else.
I'll agree with your assessment of other specs, but that's exactly what I said: All non-sorc classes have some form of white damage occasionally. Rail shot is a pretty big part of the 2 button rotation powertechs use, so I'd say it's pretty significant there.

And you are WAY wrong about snipers. Snipers who don't use marksmanship? Those even exist? That's like saying I can beat smash with deception...logically true, but you'll almost never see a deception sin in rateds.
The snipers who are inevitably in marksmanship will get their damage reduced by an average of 22.5% from shield/absorb on top of the 30% flat defense roll, and that's before defensive cooldowns using a non-min/max set. If you think reducing damage by roughly 50% while only losing 1/4th of your damage (my sins MH damage goes from 1250-906) after switching to tank gear and endurance stim isn't a big deal, you're not doing your math right. I can face tank snipers with nothing but my lightning spam regen.
The same goes for carnage maras and a few other random specs here and there.
Yes, most of the damage in this game is force and tech. But snipers are useless against a tank, and that's what's up. You haven't corrected anything.
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ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.24.2013 , 10:24 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNegotiator View Post
Ok. I guess the fact that a developer stated such does not matter...apparently you know more than he does. And for your information critical hits cannot be shielded (from developer)...also saber attacks do weapon damage and there is no saber attack in game that can be shielded.
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNegotiator View Post
This is a 10-4. Guards/Juggs are beasts because saber attacks can be defended.
I am now confused. These seem to be saying contradictory things. Also where did a developer every say saber attacks couldn't be shielded? Pretty sure all the white damage saber attacks can be shielded just fine.
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TheNegotiator's Avatar


TheNegotiator
01.24.2013 , 10:51 AM | #44
Shielding chance has nothing to do with chance to defend (dodge) an attack. I believe the dodge chance rolls first..then shield chance.

I would be hard pressed to find a developer quote that said saber attacks cannot be shielded. I looked for it but could not find it. I was always curious about it because I noticed saber attacks often hitting me for full damage in war zones and my shields never going off (big orange bubble). So I tested it against a Sentinel spamming non-special saber attacks. 10 minutes of saber spamming...shield never went off...but I could dodge some attacks even with a defense of 10%. I welcome you to test it yourself.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
01.24.2013 , 03:49 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNegotiator View Post
Shielding chance has nothing to do with chance to defend (dodge) an attack. I believe the dodge chance rolls first..then shield chance.
Yes. Let's say your accuracy is 90% and my defense is 25% (pretty realistic when I'm full-on tanking). You'll have a 65% chance to hit me with melee/ranged attacks. Let's think of it like a pie chart. There's a 10% slice where you miss, a 25% slice where I dodge, and a 65% slice where you hit. The dice roll is like throwing a random dart at the pie chart.

Let's say your attack succeeds. Now your crit is "rolled against" my shield. New pie chart. 40% of that pie chart is my shield chance. 35% (or whatever) is your crit chance, and the remaining 25% is a normal hit. Another dart throw.

The "problem" arises when your crit chance is very high. For example, I can get a temporary buff to crit chance from Overhead Slash that might put my chance to crit on Dispatch at 90%. Now the pie is a big slice of crit and a skinny slice of shielded normal hit.

Quote:
I would be hard pressed to find a developer quote that said saber attacks cannot be shielded. I looked for it but could not find it. I was always curious about it because I noticed saber attacks often hitting me for full damage in war zones and my shields never going off (big orange bubble). So I tested it against a Sentinel spamming non-special saber attacks. 10 minutes of saber spamming...shield never went off...but I could dodge some attacks even with a defense of 10%. I welcome you to test it yourself.
That is very strange. Are you sure the graphic just wasn't rendering? Did you check logs? Sorry to ask, but sure you were in the right stance and using generator?
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RaithHarth's Avatar


RaithHarth
01.25.2013 , 10:46 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Altheran View Post
In the case of Shadows and Assassins, he's partially right that there's a flaw. A Tank wearing DPS gear can work, but shouldn't work so well that it's said to be better than full-Tank. In this case, a part of the problem lies in the lack of effectiveness of Tank's stats, and the other part comes from the fact that the spec offers a pretty good synergy with DPS gear.
Most of the problem lies within force/tech damage as a tank I feel completely helpless unless I got a healer by my side, I just think it would be handy if there was a chance to push off force/tech damage just like how Yoda, Mace and Obi Wan demonstrated in the prequels by using Force Deflection or Absorb also didn't Satele Shan use these abilities against Malgus in the Hope trailer? Something we force user tanks could use

Made a suggestion of it here
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TheNegotiator's Avatar


TheNegotiator
01.26.2013 , 01:43 AM | #47
Quote:
That is very strange. Are you sure the graphic just wasn't rendering? Did you check logs? Sorry to ask, but sure you were in the right stance and using generator?
My shield chance was 50% during the test I did not check logs, as far as I know there is no bug I have never seen my shield go off during a saber attack. I'm pretty sure they are not shield-able...go try it!

Z-ToXiN's Avatar


Z-ToXiN
01.26.2013 , 03:25 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by RaithHarth View Post
Since tanks are wearing dps gear now due to the fact shield and absorption is completely useless in pvp, it's hard to say if this will be fixed or not...if at all!
Hey guys guess what:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=580312

Why? Because people run tank spec in DPS gear and play as if they were DPS and then complain that they do not feel like a tank.

If you actually played like a tank in tank gear.you would notice a drastic increase in survivability over DPS gear. Survival gear is not useless, its these complaining players that would rather whine than learn something that are useless.
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