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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.24.2013 , 07:19 AM | #5521
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Definitely. I'd like to see representation of transgender people in games, eventually. Not sure if SWTOR is where it's gonna happen, seeing that they have trouble with SGRs alone, but the ME franchise would be great for that, imo.
There are quite a few hang ups that the industry would have to get over, first (this seems appropriate) - I've not played ME, so I don't know how well they handle the differences of gender, but the fact that EDI is an AI that has a romance is interesting (and how it seemed to start before she received a body - she'd be an interesting study for gender presentation and reception, actually) - there was a thread in the Agent forums about romancing SCORPIO where we discussed the problems of AI and free will.

Ok, off-topic, but I still feel that this thread is a safe space for discussing topics which aren't all about cis- straight men all the time At the very lest they're less likely to come here and start making it all about them.

Edit: Found the SCORPIO thread.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
01.24.2013 , 07:47 AM | #5522
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
There are quite a few hang ups that the industry would have to get over, first (this seems appropriate) - I've not played ME, so I don't know how well they handle the differences of gender, but the fact that EDI is an AI that has a romance is interesting (and how it seemed to start before she received a body - she'd be an interesting study for gender presentation and reception, actually) - there was a thread in the Agent forums about romancing SCORPIO where we discussed the problems of AI and free will.
Ok, off-topic, but I still feel that this thread is a safe space for discussing topics which aren't all about cis- straight men all the time At the very lest they're less likely to come here and start making it all about them.
Edit: Found the SCORPIO thread.
EDI is a great example, but Jeff "Joker", her lover, is a good example too. He has Lobstein syndrome, so he is really out of the ordinary himself and a great character, if I may add. ME has a penchant and talent for implementing characters that are believable and not the usual cis-male chars and sexy ladies you'd see elsewhere. Okay, the girls wear tight outfits at times, but there's also Jack, and Shepard himself turns out gay, bi or straight in the last part, whatever you, the player, see in him. I'd love if SWTOR could pull something like that off, but it's an MMO with restrictions on character development after all, so maybe a single-player game would be better for implementing transgender people and give them the representation that they should have in games.

It says something about Bioware that despite them disappointing me in the way they handled SGRs in SWTOR, I still trust them the most of all companies out there to handle that matter tastefully and not sensationalist, given they make up their minds about it in time.

Nydus's Avatar


Nydus
01.24.2013 , 09:59 AM | #5523
Okay, so we've arrived at the T in LGBT. Please tell me *how* this would be modeled in the game?

As in, no judgement here, but really what are you asking for and is this a good use of BioWare's resources?

- Arcada
The Arcada Legacy (Ebon Hawk)
Ord'os (Lvl.55 Sorcerer), Naresa (Lvl.53 Operative), Jagrafess (Lvl.19 Marauder)
Nydus (Lvl.54 Shadow), Toclafane (Lvl.27 Guardian)

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
01.24.2013 , 10:09 AM | #5524
Quote: Originally Posted by Nydus View Post
Okay, so we've arrived at the T in LGBT. Please tell me *how* this would be modeled in the game?
As in, no judgement here, but really what are you asking for and is this a good use of BioWare's resources?
- Arcada
Maybe you should actually read what we were talking about. We weren't asking for anything, merely pondering an idea.

I also love how everybody is so worried about Bioware's 'ressources' all the time, but only when it comes to LGBT stuff.

Nydus's Avatar


Nydus
01.24.2013 , 10:54 AM | #5525
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Maybe you should actually read what we were talking about. We weren't asking for anything, merely pondering an idea.
Pondering an idea? The poster indicated that "[They'd] like to see representation...". I'm VERY interested in what they mean by that statement in terms of execution. Are we talking about a completely new gender class? Are we talking about removing the gender class and clothing restrictions? Are we talking about simple verbal/text acknowledgements of the existence of these groups and allowing each player to use their imagination with respect to their own (and other) characters?

I lack hostility on such matters, and I'm not going to apologize to anyone for jumping from pondering an idea to pondering an execution.

Quote:
I also love how everybody is so worried about Bioware's 'ressources' all the time, but only when it comes to LGBT stuff.
I worry about bioware's resources every time I go on the GTN and Cartel Market looking for decent gear for my Inquisitor or Shadow.

I do understand why you'd be paranoid about my motivations, but I really have none that are hostile in this regard. Although I suppose the creepy avatar to my left might bias someone as to my personality .

- Arcada
The Arcada Legacy (Ebon Hawk)
Ord'os (Lvl.55 Sorcerer), Naresa (Lvl.53 Operative), Jagrafess (Lvl.19 Marauder)
Nydus (Lvl.54 Shadow), Toclafane (Lvl.27 Guardian)

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
01.24.2013 , 11:03 AM | #5526
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
Well, from the statements we got last spring it would appear that rather than "rewriting" the existing romance arcs they're going to write entirely new ones. Because they had the idea that switching pronouns is lazy and unprofessional, despite that being more or less what's done in those other two BioWare franchises.
I still find that comment funny since that's what they did in the entire game with male vs. female dialog.
Node guarder

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
01.24.2013 , 11:12 AM | #5527
Quote: Originally Posted by Nydus View Post
Pondering an idea? The poster indicated that "[They'd] like to see representation...".
Well, "I'd like to see representation of" doesn't equal "I want it in the game and you better make it tomorrow, Bioware.".

I know it's hard to grasp, since most often when people utter the words "I'd like to see xyz" on these boards it often enough means "I want it in now and don't care about anything or anyone else". Not in this case though.

As much as I'd like to delve into the topic of implementation of transgender themes or chars into SWTOR, as it would be a topic I'm certainly interested in, this would be for another thread, not this one. This is for SGR, and while we were pondering an idea and exchanging a few thoughts on that matter, it doesn't mean this should be the thread where it's gonna be discussed.

Feel free to open one, and I'll glady join you in discussion there.

Wittand's Avatar


Wittand
01.24.2013 , 11:49 AM | #5528
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
Well, from the statements we got last spring it would appear that rather than "rewriting" the existing romance arcs they're going to write entirely new ones. Because they had the idea that switching pronouns is lazy and unprofessional, despite that being more or less what's done in those other two BioWare franchises.

But, again, the writing shouldn't be the problem. The biggest hurdle should be paying all those voice actors to come back. That needs to happen even if they're just switching out some pronouns and most of the new dialogue is done with the core 16 voice actors. (Keep that in mind: to get one SGRA per class and gender, they'd need to work with a minimum of 32 voice actors.)
Past Bioware games do not simply switch pronouns. Usually you have different dialog/cutscenes matching the gender of the player.
If this thread is true, even the straight romances are coded rather poorly with no way to exit a once started romance arc. So it all romances are in dire need of rework.
I donīt think that the voice acting is that much of an issue. Since there is plenty of other dialog that needs to be recorded too so it would not be like bringing a voice actor back just for 15 minutes of dialog.

natashina's Avatar


natashina
01.24.2013 , 11:58 AM | #5529
I haven't posted much lately, but I have been reading.

I can tell you from my personal experience that a player can end the current romance. I did it with Quinn without issues ("You are no longer welcome in my bedchamber" was the basic dialog.) There was two more conversations with the [Flirt] dialog option included later, but he never treated my SW like his lady after that. That ended that arc, I'm happy to say. I didn't like the companion for several reasons.

Trust me, if I had been forced to stay in a relationship with Quinn, I would have cancelled my sub last March.

I'll be posting more later. I've finished my second DA2 playthrough and I have some ideas about where the future of SGRAs could be going in ToR based upon my experiences with the Dragon Age series and the romances involved. I'm not sure when at this point. Still taking a break from a lot of this.

I just found out I'm gonna be an auntie again, only from my own bloodline this time.

Take care guys.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.24.2013 , 11:58 AM | #5530
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Perhaps they're currently looking at that stage, wondering if it's too hard or not? It's a little depressing to think that they'll drop the idea of SGRA's with current companions (whether applicable retroactively or post 50) in favour of another speeder - of course continuation of current romances post 50 is going to happen with updated class stories anyway, but apparently the OGRA's were easier in the first place (and cheaper somehow? I'd really like to see the logic behind that.)
The logic? More lines equal more time. More time equals more money. Different lines may require different cutscenes (not sure on this one, but it's a possibility).