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Defensive Cooldown for Sorcerer/Sage

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Defensive Cooldown for Sorcerer/Sage

-IceHawk-'s Avatar


-IceHawk-
01.23.2013 , 12:47 PM | #41
Balance is an issue of mean and median ability, not of an outlier.

Why is that such a difficult concept for people to grasp? The ability of an individual to play an AC to its maximal potential has no bearing whatsoever on the overall balance of the class in relation to the other 7 or to what can be reasonably expected of a player.

I can kite through Warzones with no deaths for 15-minutes spamming Affliction and Crushing Darkness while dropping Death Field and the occasional Chain Lightning and top a DPS chart as well. Who cares?

The Skill Curve to effectively maximize play as a Madness or Hybrid-DPS build is intense.
31-Point Madness lacks the CC abilities of the 1/12/28 Hybrid (no Stun Bubble, no Root) while the Hybrid lacks the extra DoT (Creeping Terror) and must rely almost entirely on channeling Force Lightning (as in, not moving) to maximize DPS and Resource management.

There are slightly different play-styles for the two builds.
However, the one constant is that the primary defense of a Sorc/Sage is to avoid mDPS and LOS rDPS at all cost.

In short; Run.

Our much talked of self-heal will reliably restore 2.5-3.5K Hit-Points.

How long does it take a Marauder to do 3.5k damage?

This is PVP; the myth that the Damage #s on the Scoreboard actually mean anything is a farcical concept.

What matters is TTK, and therefore Burst potential.

Sorcerers in PVP have the weakest burst combined with the weakest survivability and a demanding mobile defensive play-style that is incongruent with our principle stationary channeled DPS source.

And Lightning in PVP is worthless.

The only individuals who think this AC is balanced either do not play it, enjoy destroying it, or seem to think outliers are proof positive that everyone else needs to L2PNewb.

Madness needs a ~5% front-loaded DPS buff to allow it to burst.
Lightning needs a similar damage increase and a defensive re-design.
Backlash needs to be on Caster Only and on Damage Break only.

And the AC in general could use a single defensive cool down.

wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
01.23.2013 , 01:00 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Envyyyyyyy View Post
You're doing it wrong. I can top the warzones constantly on my sage or sorc..... You just don't know how to play the class.

Sage/Sorc have so many spec variations they can run in pvp and in PVE they're monsters in the hybrid spec.

I think sage/sorc are fine where they are however I think the bubble pop needs to be nerfed, and smash jugs/guards.

If you learn how to play the class properly you'll be fine.
incorrect, i do it quite right

any sorc with 1/3 of a brain can top dmg charts however we have the least threatening single target dmg in the game, if u argue that then u probably dont playa sorc
NIHIL

THE BASTION

warstory's Avatar


warstory
01.23.2013 , 01:00 PM | #43
I am a min max tk sage and we do not need any defensive cooldown s, what we need is dmg. We do not have any ability that hits over 5 k, 4.2k max.

My sniper hits for 4.4k in battle master/wh gear. We don't hit often so we need to hit harder. 1.8 -1.5 sec to get off our hardest hitting ability. My 1 attack for 4k vs their 2 attacks in the same time math does add up plain and simple

wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
01.23.2013 , 01:01 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Xerain View Post
Stop facetanking stuff. Defensive cool down right there.
fotm bad needs to chime in

go away with your entire quickbar full of cooldowns please
NIHIL

THE BASTION

PloGreen's Avatar


PloGreen
01.23.2013 , 01:02 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Xerain View Post
Naw but madness can kite and keep up some damage if need be. Pretty sure there are plenty of guides out there on youtube telling people how to beat mara's with madness.

maybe lightning just needs more instants? Idk. Mages are gay.
So you dont play a sage but you are telling people that do play it in ranked what they are doing wrong?

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
01.23.2013 , 01:03 PM | #46
You got unnatural preservation. What more do you want?
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

PloGreen's Avatar


PloGreen
01.23.2013 , 01:05 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by warstory View Post
I am a min max tk sage and we do not need any defensive cooldown s, what we need is dmg. We do not have any ability that hits over 5 k, 4.2k max.

My sniper hits for 4.4k in battle master/wh gear. We don't hit often so we need to hit harder. 1.8 -1.5 sec to get off our hardest hitting ability. My 1 attack for 4k vs their 2 attacks in the same time math does add up plain and simple
You can hit over 4.2k mate.

4.4k to 4.8k on fob is pretty common if you spec right.

5k hits are possible against undergeared people also.

glocklB's Avatar


glocklB
01.23.2013 , 01:06 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
Better post in another thread discussing wished changes for 1.7. Still my 2 cents.

A few things to help the survivability of dps sages are:
1. Remove the bubble stun and take it back to mezz. Please if it is not too much to ask for move it in tier 1 balance? Thanks.
2. Knockback to have a bigger knockback distance. A smasher is still in a position after the knockback to scream/dispatch.
3. Knockback roots target for x seconds.
4. Egress on force speed by default (sages only).
5. An instant/basic attack to give a fighting chance against powertechs who at 15m blast you to pieces.

I am aware some of these are skills in tk tree. So give them by default to all and add new skills that fix the tk tree so it is a perfectly viable option for competitive games.

New ability? Force jumb yoda/palpatine style as shown in their duel: Either a) Jumps 20-30m away from current position (if that's ok please?:P) or b) jumps back to your initial position if you are pulled/harpooned. Without the bubble stun which totally takes the fun away there must be some counter-mechanism to gang-attacks, especially for the weakest armor class and even more when other classes have such abilities in terms of stealth. Together with a rooted/longer knockback these two abilities are perfect to counter coordinate attacks.Does this ability makes sages (over)powered for hutball? Probably, but there are cooldowns, it can be on double time than a 45sec harpoon if I recall well.
Add this and prepare to see forums full of "Sages are OP" and "Nerf sages" threads. Giving hybrid's utility to madness... hmm... plus buffs like these. You try to balance pvp for sagev3 encounters, apparently
<Reckoning> The Red Eclipse - Marine, sorcerer
<Nostrum Dolus> Tomb of Freedon Nadd - Walsix, sage

sanchito's Avatar


sanchito
01.23.2013 , 01:08 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
Balance is an issue of mean and median ability, not of an outlier.
...
[/i].
This is a very interesting post, however, i disagree with this;

One of the biggest challenges for a developer is to balance both the average performance as well as the top end. As an extreme example, lets say spec A and spec B both do X median damage, but the top 0.01 % of super skilled players can do 3X with spec A and 10X with spec B. This would be a very imbalanced situation because most of the top players will now play spec B. The competitive part of the game would essentialy require you to play spec B now, so if you want any chance of ever playing on the top you'd be forced to go with spec B.

If you follow Starcraft 2 a bit you can see how over the years, blizzard has been constantly struggling with this very problem. Overall they are doing a decent job of it, but still they never got it perfectly right.

glocklB's Avatar


glocklB
01.23.2013 , 01:08 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Yeochins View Post
  • Force Leap
  • Obliterate (Rage Spec)
  • Crippling Slash (Slow)
  • Rupture (Slow if annihilation specced)
  • Force Choke
  • Ravage (Root if carnage specced)
  • Deadly throw (root if specced)
  • Intimidating Roar (Can be used if you feel like wasting it, to interrupt force speed)

You have many tools.
And no mentioning about predation? How cute
<Reckoning> The Red Eclipse - Marine, sorcerer
<Nostrum Dolus> Tomb of Freedon Nadd - Walsix, sage