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Time for a PvP Fix

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wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
01.23.2013 , 01:39 AM | #411
Quote: Originally Posted by Chemic_al View Post
Well Sins get a passive 25% shock buff (like why? the can use their sabre to hurt people, we can't), but not only does that tank FL do more damage with 3 stack harnessed darkness, but it heals them too and is uninterupptable! But yes, why the heck madness sorcs don't get anything like this (FL self-healing when death mark on the subject), and I can't for the life of me work out how they can make master strike/ravage uninterruptable but madness sorcs FL isn't. It is as you say, salt in an already very deep wound.

But I also can't work out why we as the "mage" class don't get shroud, but sins do.



Yeah the self-heal makes force management as a healer in PvE a joke, but does nothing for a dps sorc.

But re force managment, a lightning sorc never has resource problems, what with passive regen from the filler attack (lightning strike) and effusion, and having to take either more force or the force cost reduction to actually take talents higher up in the tree. Madness yeah it sucks on a whole new level to run out of force cos you've had to keep reapplying dots etc.

yea and "tank" sins can shock twice as hard as we can

their deathfield, dots and forcelightning tick just as hard


thatd be like letting us thrash for 4k
NIHIL

THE BASTION

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
01.23.2013 , 02:06 AM | #412
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
I'm levelling up a leth sniper right now- she's level 34. Wow, the difference. Especially in Huttball and Alderaan. Get up on a ramp or up on the platform in central Ald and you're like a meat grinder- people can't even get close to me- and the best part is, since there's no ranged stuns anymore, PTs can't stun me and grapple from a distance, and sorcs can't bring you out of cover from 30m to helps allies pull/leap to you either- so I know I don't need to blow entrench until someone's within 10m of me.

Biggest issue- stealthers.

But yeah- the damage is so much better, my level 34 sniper gets bigger crits than my full WH sorc.

Trauma debuff, root, aoe instant mez, leap immune, interrupt immune, more damage, execute- etc.... yeah, snipers are the one true ranged class that feels really good to play as.
You comparing incomparables here. You don't even have weakening blast yet. You don't have enough crit chance for energy regen. You are playing against players that don't even have their full set of abiilties to counter you. An assassin before lvl 38 is a complete joke for lethality.. until he gets force shroud.

Once you will get into 50 pvp with sniper, you will only play lethality in extremely good teams, because outside of that you will be less effective than a Full MM Sniper and less resiliant than a full Engineering Sniper.

Oh and lethality on huttball is a waste of spot.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
01.23.2013 , 02:37 AM | #413
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
You comparing incomparables here. You don't even have weakening blast yet. You don't have enough crit chance for energy regen. You are playing against players that don't even have their full set of abiilties to counter you. An assassin before lvl 38 is a complete joke for lethality.. until he gets force shroud.

Once you will get into 50 pvp with sniper, you will only play lethality in extremely good teams, because outside of that you will be less effective than a Full MM Sniper and less resiliant than a full Engineering Sniper.

Oh and lethality on huttball is a waste of spot.
So basically, sniper gets even more powerful at 50? Sounds good to me.

I liked the part best where you said there would be teams that would take me for DPS- it's not even a fathomable notion to entertain for sorc dps to get into RWZ teams (at least not ones that like winning).

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
01.23.2013 , 03:50 AM | #414
The only things sorc dps has over sniper is offhealing and mobility. If the mobility factor wasn't so easily countered by the large abundance of roots our survivability wouldn't be so bad.

Oh course this does nothing to address our very inferior baseline abilities, burst or cast reliability, defensive cooldowns or crowd control compared to snipers.

I'm not saying sorcerer's should be able to beat snipers with out LOS 1v1 but the class needs work. That starts with updating the baseline skills to make the class operate better and be less easily shutdown in a group scenario. The people saying the class is perfectly fine tend to not even play sorcerer as a dps if they play sorceror at all. Just because the class can kite well enough in 1v1 situations does not mean it is working fine in a group setting.
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
01.23.2013 , 12:58 PM | #415
sorc's are a squishy class i should know for i play one. We definitely need a rebuild better trees would help maybe skills that improve our armor like juggs immortality tree but for us. we need more instant abilities for damage and heal for us to be effective in anything including pve.
The cake is a lie,there are only cookies.Through cookies I gain happiness,
Through happiness I gain weight,Through weight I gain Obesity,
The force had nothing to do with it.
(Join the Sith empire... We have cookies!)

Fireswraith's Avatar


Fireswraith
01.23.2013 , 01:32 PM | #416
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
to get into RWZ teams (at least not ones that like winning).
People still do rated warzones? Huh.

LordCamTheGreat's Avatar


LordCamTheGreat
01.24.2013 , 01:23 AM | #417
Played a few games and realised a combo of force speed unnatural pres and static b got me away from people buts marauders immobilise you with instants and trap you like a fish in a bucket. We need another version of unbreakable will dark heal an instant infusion 2.5 activation and force speed unnatural pres to be half the cooldown
The cake is a lie,there are only cookies.Through cookies I gain happiness,
Through happiness I gain weight,Through weight I gain Obesity,
The force had nothing to do with it.
(Join the Sith empire... We have cookies!)

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
01.24.2013 , 10:20 AM | #418
Quote: Originally Posted by Chemic_al View Post
Well Sins get a passive 25% shock buff (like why? the can use their sabre to hurt people, we can't), but not only does that tank FL do more damage with 3 stack harnessed darkness, but it heals them too and is uninterupptable! But yes, why the heck madness sorcs don't get anything like this (FL self-healing when death mark on the subject), and I can't for the life of me work out how they can make master strike/ravage uninterruptable but madness sorcs FL isn't. It is as you say, salt in an already very deep wound.
Well that's easy: Force Lightning is a ranged attack with zero cooldown in case of Madness, Ravage/Master Strike is a melee attack with a 27 sec cooldown (assuming everybody takes the Ravager skill). If someone interrupts Force Lightning, you can use it again in 4 seconds; if someone interrupts Master Strike, you can't use it for half a minute.

Having a talent that makes Force Lightning uninterruptable for a short time every minute or so would be okay; but just making it totally uninterruptable is way too much.

Edonidd's Avatar


Edonidd
01.24.2013 , 11:43 AM | #419
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Well that's easy: Force Lightning is a ranged attack with zero cooldown in case of Madness, Ravage/Master Strike is a melee attack with a 27 sec cooldown (assuming everybody takes the Ravager skill). If someone interrupts Force Lightning, you can use it again in 4 seconds; if someone interrupts Master Strike, you can't use it for half a minute.

Having a talent that makes Force Lightning uninterruptable for a short time every minute or so would be okay; but just making it totally uninterruptable is way too much.

It is already designed around that though. Ravage is completely free, and costs zero resources. Marauders are a class that were intended to be limited by their force generation. The last single tick of ravage can easily hit for more than all 4 ticks of force lightning. If ravage was interrupted maras can easily use a rage generator if they are out of resources or if they have plenty of resources can do viscous slash at any time. As well as having better abilities than that depending on what tree they are specced, although those do have CD's. Madness sorcs that you mentioned have shock on a 6 second CD, crushing darkness, creeping terror, and deathfield on a 15 second CD, and affliction with no CD but only able to apply a single stack to a target which lasts 15 (21) seconds. So applying that does absolutely nothing. If somebody interrupts my force lightning right after I threw a shock out, there is absolutely nothing I can do DPS wise for 4 seconds. Static barrier and my self heal are also on long CD's and if those are on CD too, I can do exam you nothing. Maybe use an unspecced heal on myself or a friend. 3 seconds for 2000 HP heal...

Interrupts hurt us more than snipers or maras who have bunches of abilities. But both of them are un-interruptable while we are completely able to be interrupted and have the animations that make it the most obvious of any class that we should be interrupted.

Like I have said. Salt in the wound. And bad design.

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
01.25.2013 , 05:05 AM | #420
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Well that's easy: Force Lightning is a ranged attack with zero cooldown in case of Madness, Ravage/Master Strike is a melee attack with a 27 sec cooldown (assuming everybody takes the Ravager skill). If someone interrupts Force Lightning, you can use it again in 4 seconds; if someone interrupts Master Strike, you can't use it for half a minute.
Lots of things on long cooldown can be interrupted (death from above for instance), and big deal even if master/strike ravage wasnt interrupted it's still going to be on cooldown. And tell me what else is their to interrupt when a warrior is attacking you? Can't interrupt choke if you're on the receiving end. Having to fill a warrior's resolve (knockback, stun, whirlwind) to get out of a big hitter like that is bad.

Quote:
Having a talent that makes Force Lightning uninterruptable for a short time every minute or so would be okay; but just making it totally uninterruptable is way too much.
Meh, hardly, it's the bread and butter attack of madness, we have no "basic weapon attack" to fill in between stuff. A madness sorc doesn't want to use lightning strike except as a last resort, and if wrath proc is not up, then you'd have to channel that too, which yet again is vulnerable to interrupt.