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Kaggath Tournament - Grievous vs Revan vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament - Grievous vs Revan vs G0-T0

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.21.2013 , 04:35 PM | #231
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
I think it had more to do with her being a much smaller and more agile target than what they normally fight. Much like her first battle with Grievous (which was completely lame, Grievous should have destroyed her). However, here we have standard height people.

And yes, plot armor does rule all (*points to R2 getting blown to pieces)

Edit: Magnaguards actually have defeated Jedi Knights and held their own with Masters.
Thats what I am saying! Plot armor! It only goes down, when the plot calls for it...hence R2 getting blasted and Leia getting shot.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.21.2013 , 04:40 PM | #232
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
The stars are gonna have to align for Revan to get to Grievous. He is on one ship, one ship among hundreds (more than that). Not only that, but Grievous' fleet numbers will allow him to surround Revan's significantly smaller forces. Unless Revan knows exactly where Grievous is at all times, such a confrontation is incredibly unlikely to occur. It is more likely that Revan will be killed in battle before confronting Grievous.

And don't make Revan's tactical knowledge greater than it is. He may be smart, but he doesn't have the tools to overcome Grievous' massive numbers. Grievous outnumbers Revan's forces at least a couple hundred thousand to one (more like a million to one). And he can bring those forces to bear without fear of losing anything major as those droids can simply be rebuilt.

You could say G0-T0 will tell Revan where Grievous is, but then you could also say that he would tell Grievous where Revan is. G0-T0 will want Grievous to win, as Grievous' droid powerbase is far easier to remove for him than Revan's would be.
Point, but finding Grievous isn't going to be like finding G0-T0. He's going to be leading the charge, striking at Revan's forces personally. Arguably he was a coward, but he wasn't so cowardly that he would shy away from battle. He was a warrior, and would probably (probably) want to test his skills against Revan in combat. He wasn't afraid of Jedi remember, he relished battling and killing them, so why should he be afraid of Revan? And remember the Malevolence? That time Grievous was trying to stay hidden and still the Republic managed to track it down and destroy it.

And Grievous isn't going to avoid a fight, and Revan is smart enough to goad Grievous into a one, perhaps by presenting him with an easy target. Or he could have his assassins infiltrate Grievous' flagship and track/sabotage it so Revan can set a trap. Or he could simply drop out of hyperspace when Grievous attacks his powerbase. Chances are Grievous will come for Revan personally. Revan is not Thrawn, but he's a good if not exemplary tactician. He's not going to lose a space battle to some droid, Grievous has the best chance of defeating him, and Grievous knows that.

In terms of battle strategy, much like Mandalore, Revan can employ hit and run tactics, draw Grievous out with light attacks and then surround him with a full force. It almost defeated Grievous in his last Kaggath, so why not now when Revan has superior tactical skills and forces as well as numbers? (And assassins which a perfect for guerrilla tactics) And Revan can easily overcome Grievous' superior numbers through strategy, he only needs one battle to kill Grievous. And Grievous can't put all his forces in one star system now can he? If Revan strikes quick and fast the General will be too dead to recover.

And it doesn't matter who G0-T0 tips off, G0-T0's best chance of a swift victory is bringing Revan and Grievous together early on so he can eliminate them both simultaneously. Which gives Revan the chance he needs to kill Grievous.

Sorry if I just seem to be supporting Revan here, but Revan fanboi turn out seems to be surprisingly low...

P.S Concerning the Magnaguards Ashoka actually was almost killed by them, but managed to escape or was saved if I recall. She did not defeat them however. Still, this is Revan we are talking about. He can beat Magnaguards. We also have to consider what would happen if Revan brought Dark Jedi with him. And Malak.

EDIT: I stand corrected, Ashoka did beat those Magnaguards. 3 of them, apparently it was a difficult fight. I would call plot armour but we also have to remember that Ashoka was actually an exemplary padawan, and could go toe-to-toe with Asajj Ventress. (Who apparently pwns everyone :P)

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.21.2013 , 04:42 PM | #233
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Thats what I am saying! Plot armor! It only goes down, when the plot calls for it...hence R2 getting blasted and Leia getting shot.
I hear ya. It's a real shame such characters have to be buffed/degraded as the plot demands.
Added Chapter 49 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.21.2013 , 05:00 PM | #234
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Point, but finding Grievous isn't going to be like finding G0-T0. He's going to be leading the charge, striking at Revan's forces personally. Arguably he was a coward, but he wasn't so cowardly that he would shy away from battle. He was a warrior, and would probably (probably) want to test his skills against Revan in combat. He wasn't afraid of Jedi remember, he relished battling and killing them, so why should he be afraid of Revan? And remember the Malevolence? That time Grievous was trying to stay hidden and still the Republic managed to track it down and destroy it.

And Grievous isn't going to avoid a fight, and Revan is smart enough to goad Grievous into a one, perhaps by presenting him with an easy target. Or he could have his assassins infiltrate Grievous' flagship and track/sabotage it so Revan can set a trap. Or he could simply drop out of hyperspace when Grievous attacks his powerbase. Chances are Grievous will come for Revan personally. Revan is not Thrawn, but he's a good if not exemplary tactician. He's not going to lose a space battle to some droid, Grievous has the best chance of defeating him, and Grievous knows that.

In terms of battle strategy, much like Mandalore, Revan can employ hit and run tactics, draw Grievous out with light attacks and then surround him with a full force. It almost defeated Grievous in his last Kaggath, so why not now when Revan has superior tactical skills and forces as well as numbers? (And assassins which a perfect for guerrilla tactics) And Revan can easily overcome Grievous' superior numbers through strategy, he only needs one battle to kill Grievous. And Grievous can't put all his forces in one star system now can he? If Revan strikes quick and fast the General will be too dead to recover.

And it doesn't matter who G0-T0 tips off, G0-T0's best chance of a swift victory is bringing Revan and Grievous together early on so he can eliminate them both simultaneously. Which gives Revan the chance he needs to kill Grievous.

Sorry if I just seem to be supporting Revan here, but Revan fanboi turn out seems to be surprisingly low...

P.S Concerning the Magnaguards Ashoka actually was almost killed by them, but managed to escape or was saved if I recall. She did not defeat them however. Still, this is Revan we are talking about. He can beat Magnaguards. We also have to consider what would happen if Revan brought Dark Jedi with him. And Malak.

EDIT: I stand corrected, Ashoka did beat those Magnaguards. 3 of them, apparently it was a difficult fight. I would call plot armour but we also have to remember that Ashoka was actually an exemplary padawan, and could go toe-to-toe with Asajj Ventress. (Who apparently pwns everyone :P)
The Malevolence was destroying everything it encountered (even Plo Koon's fleet ). I forget how they found it, but they didn't find it until it was actually known.

Malgus won due to his stealthed fleet. Revan doesn't have that.

You are right about Grievous wanting to fight Revan, but he doesn't actually have to fight him. He could easily overwhelm and outmaneuver Revan's forces. Revan is not Thrawn (glad we agree on that as Thrawn would utterly destroy Revan). Revan is not an ista-win tactician either. Thrawn lost his share of battles. Don't say that Revan is going to win every space battle that he is apart of. Not when he is facing superior numbers. Any victory he gets will severely damage his forces to the point where he needs to bring forces from other fleets to supply his own, weakening his other forces. Grievous doesn't share that weakness. His forces are so vast that he could draw only a small number from a few fleets and his main fleet would be back to full strength.

Grievous can bring the majority of his forces to a single battle. Remember Coruscant? The majority of the Republic navy had to fall back to Coruscant to counter the massive fleet Grievous had. Revan doesn't have the same numbers that the Republic fleet had.

By the time Grievous finally encounters Revan, Revan's forces will be too weak to stop him. How do you propose Revan get to Grievous' ship in that condition? He's gonna have to get past thousands of fighters, buzz droids, and battle cruisers. Obi-Wan and Anakin (best pilot in the Jedi Order) barely made it to Grievous' ship, and they had the Republic fleet distracting the majority of the CIS forces. The minute Revan's starship exits his flagship, his survivability goes down (way down).

Assuming Revan makes it past all of that, he then has to get past hordes of Battle Droids with Grievous watching his movements. I'm struggling to see how Revan can beat the odds set against him. He's no Obi-Wan and Anakin.

Edit: And Beni, stop trying to compensate for the lack of Revanites!
Added Chapter 49 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
01.21.2013 , 05:36 PM | #235
I think people are seriously underestimating Revan's forces...

1. A bunch of dark force users (many are able to use force lightning, which would be fairly effective against droids)

2. Grievous isn't the only one with powerful battle droids that have shield generators...

3. I assume superweapons are banned from this, otherwise Revan has the Star Forge...

In other words...

Grievous has a droid army, while Revan has an army of Droids, sith, and regular soldiers...

So it is rather unlikely that Grievous gets much of an advantage with having droids as soldiers...

The magna guards would be fairly easy for Revan, Malek, or anyone else that can use force lighting to simply fry them...

So the fight between Revan and Grievous boils down to whom is the better tactician and while Revan is no Thrawn, he was still a fairly brilliant tactician.

At best Grievous will end up in a one on one against Revan, whom completely outclasses Grievous.

However while the two armies are busy duking it out, G0-T0 would probably be quietly hacking droids on both sides and then the winner of the battle between Grievous and Revan will be deleted almost immediately afterward (if nothing else G0-T0 would just have the ship the victor is on suddenly self-destruct).

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.21.2013 , 05:53 PM | #236
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
I think people are seriously underestimating Revan's forces...

1. A bunch of dark force users (many are able to use force lightning, which would be fairly effective against droids)

2. Grievous isn't the only one with powerful battle droids that have shield generators...

3. I assume superweapons are banned from this, otherwise Revan has the Star Forge...

In other words...

Grievous has a droid army, while Revan has an army of Droids, sith, and regular soldiers...

So it is rather unlikely that Grievous gets much of an advantage with having droids as soldiers...

The magna guards would be fairly easy for Revan, Malek, or anyone else that can use force lighting to simply fry them...

So the fight between Revan and Grievous boils down to whom is the better tactician and while Revan is no Thrawn, he was still a fairly brilliant tactician.

At best Grievous will end up in a one on one against Revan, whom completely outclasses Grievous.

However while the two armies are busy duking it out, G0-T0 would probably be quietly hacking droids on both sides and then the winner of the battle between Grievous and Revan will be deleted almost immediately afterward (if nothing else G0-T0 would just have the ship the victor is on suddenly self-destruct).
1. Dark Jedi? You remember the Geonosis Arena, right? Where even some of the most powerful Jedi would have been killed if not for the timely arrival of Master Yoda?

2. Yeah, and those droids will be blown to bits by Hailfire droids, AAT's, Armored Tank Droids, and the rest.

3. No Star Forge.

What does Revan have that Grievous can't beat through Trillions of droids? Can Revan keep up with Grievous' production power? Is Revan's Empire galaxy-wide? Can his forces fight battles across the galaxy?

Revan will lose more battles than he wins, and any battles he does win will severely damage his forces. Any forces Grievous loses will be quickly replaced.
Added Chapter 49 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.21.2013 , 06:03 PM | #237
Here's a question Beni: Does General Grievous have access to Bio-weapons? He used several variations of bio-weapons during the Clone Wars.
Added Chapter 49 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
01.21.2013 , 06:18 PM | #238
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
1. Dark Jedi? You remember the Geonosis Arena, right? Where even some of the most powerful Jedi would have been killed if not for the timely arrival of Master Yoda?
If you think Revan would just throw his SIth at all those droids without some kind of support, you are seriously underestimating Revan.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post

2. Yeah, and those droids will be blown to bits by Hailfire droids, AAT's, Armored Tank Droids, and the rest.
Just because we didn't see Revan's forces using tanks, and other ground and air vehicles, doesn't mean his forces didn't have them... I mean seriously, considering the fact air speeders, landspeeders, etc. were already common in Revan's time; it stands to reason that both the Republic and Revan's Sith Forces had combat vehicles...

I'm sorry but something the size of an AAT wouldn't have been able to function effectively on Taris for example...

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post

3. No Star Forge.
That means Grievous doesn't have his super weapons either...

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post

What does Revan have that Grievous can't beat through Trillions of droids? Can Revan keep up with Grievous' production power? Is Revan's Empire galaxy-wide? Can his forces fight battles across the galaxy?
So let me get this straight, you're saying Revan suddenly has 0 production facilities of his own? Revan had control of shipyards, he had industial complexes that could produce mass quantities of battle droids... The Republic would have been evenly matched against Revan WITHOUT him using the Star Forge, it wasn't exactly his only production facility...

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post

Revan will lose more battles than he wins, and any battles he does win will severely damage his forces. Any forces Grievous loses will be quickly replaced.
Except you're ignoring the fact Revan has production facilities of his own... Grievous probably would be about evenly matched concerning production of military hardware...

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.21.2013 , 06:31 PM | #239
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
If you think Revan would just throw his SIth at all those droids without some kind of support, you are seriously underestimating Revan.
I never said that, my point was that Dark Jedi can be defeated by superior numbers. You can send in back-up, but how many forces will it take? A single Lucrehulk cruiser carries almost four hundred thousand battle droids, plus seven thousand tanks. That's one Lucrehulk. Grievous has a ton of them.

Quote:
Just because we didn't see Revan's forces using tanks, and other ground and air vehicles, doesn't mean his forces didn't have them... I mean seriously, considering the fact air speeders, landspeeders, etc. were already common in Revan's time; it stands to reason that both the Republic and Revan's Sith Forces had combat vehicles...

I'm sorry but something the size of an AAT wouldn't have been able to function effectively on Taris for example...
Never said he didn't have them. Simply saying that those shielded droids can be destroyed by Grievous' vehicles. If one man can do it, a tank can too.

Quote:
That means Grievous doesn't have his super weapons either...
Already knew that. It's in the rules.

Quote:
So let me get this straight, you're saying Revan suddenly has 0 production facilities of his own? Revan had control of shipyards, he had industial complexes that could produce mass quantities of battle droids... The Republic would have been evenly matched against Revan WITHOUT him using the Star Forge, it wasn't exactly his only production facility...
Never said that. And you know Revan was facing a Republic just coming off of two wars, right? Saying that he is evenly matched against a weak Republic doesn't say much.

Quote:
Except you're ignoring the fact Revan has production facilities of his own... Grievous probably would be about evenly matched concerning production of military hardware...
So let me get this straight. You are telling me that Revan can put out the same production power of the Kuat Shipyards (a monster shipyard during the Clone Wars), Rothana Shipyards, and Balmorra. Not to mention the other shipyards under the control of the Galactic Republic. Even then the Republic was having trouble in the beginning of the Clone Wars.
Added Chapter 49 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.21.2013 , 06:56 PM | #240
An off topic question, but does anyone else have this sub form move threads all over the place?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.