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Anyone else think the Clone Wars portrays certain things wrongly?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Anyone else think the Clone Wars portrays certain things wrongly?

Sith_Kingpin's Avatar


Sith_Kingpin
01.21.2013 , 01:20 PM | #1
I'm not saying I don't like the show because I do. It's just, they've done a few things in which make me raise my eyebrows. For example, in the movies, Anakin was a hot-headed, whiny brat who was bordering on selfish. In the CW cartoon, they changed his character completely and make him a respectful master to Ahsoka, as he chastises her a lot for things he'd have done in the movies without a second thought.

Also, the clones bug me because I can't buy into their emotions and individuality since we know the murderous animals they become. Does anyone here think someone like Rex or Cody would willingly murder Jedi with a single order from the Chancellor? I don't believe it at all, as we're shown in the CW, they respect the Jedi and look up to them on the battlefield. Their unique personalities prove they could easily reject Order 66 and not become cold-blooded animals, yet as we're shown in the ROTS, they purge Jedi and even murder younglings at the Jedi Temple!

Which brings me to my last point in the rant. The Jedi youngling arc just recently shown in season 5 made me a little uneasy; I know they probably don't grow up to be Padawans as they could very well be murdered by Anakin (now Vader) in the Jedi Temple! It made me a little sad, as we attach ourselves to these characters' emotions, and yet we know what happens in the future and it sort of makes me a little disappointed. I don't know about you, but these are my pet peeves of the show.

If you have anything else I missed, please state your opinions as I like debating these issues with fellow SW geeks lol.

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
01.21.2013 , 01:34 PM | #2
Anakin not being a whiny, self-centered brat is a good thing. I have more respect for the character. The Clones were made to follow orders. Yes, many respect the Jedi and would continue to follow them. When Order 66 is issued, however, they do their duty and obey. Most of them. Not all turned on theirJedi commanders. Some disobeyed and helped their Jedi escape. Others even left the Republic (now Imperial) military because of the order.

TCW doesn't portray things wrong. It expands on and sheds new light into things. We only saw theolder Anakin in two movies, same with the Clones. We didn't see them during the war, so we don't know how they behaved and grew in that time. Besides, you have to admit that Anakin NOT being a whiney little b**** is a big improvement to the character.

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turnoverla-page
01.21.2013 , 01:52 PM | #3
im glad anikan is not a whiny brat i feel it would of ruined the show of he was, and remember we do not see rex in the films so i do not think he does order 66

Sith_Kingpin's Avatar


Sith_Kingpin
01.21.2013 , 02:17 PM | #4
Very true. I'm aware not all clones followed the order. However, the vast majority (probably more than 99%) obeyed Order 66 and purged the Jedi without remorse. Now, this doesn't resonate with me as I can't see the clones being as emotionally tied and invested as they are in the CW cartoon. This is all subjective opinion, and is not fact.

I hope Rex turns out to be a defector as he learnt a lot from that clone who left the army and had a Twilek hybrid family on a farm. Anyway, yeah I agree it's good seeing Anakin in a different light... but surely he couldn't have changed from a whiny brat, into a good master, and then back into a whiny brat for the start of ROTS, as there's only a 3 year gap in which his personality change can occur lol.

Harlequintwo's Avatar


Harlequintwo
01.21.2013 , 02:52 PM | #5
I personally think that Grievous is portrayed to be a worse fighter than he appeared in other, previous works. The comics and old Clone Wars show all portrayed him to be the deadly scourge of the Jedi. Now he just toys with his enemies too much.

As for Rex, being with the 501st, the only legion who's Jedi they didn't have to kill, he'd never have to make the call.

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CassusVerda
01.21.2013 , 06:34 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Sith_Kingpin View Post
I'm not saying I don't like the show because I do. It's just, they've done a few things in which make me raise my eyebrows. For example, in the movies, Anakin was a hot-headed, whiny brat who was bordering on selfish. In the CW cartoon, they changed his character completely and make him a respectful master to Ahsoka, as he chastises her a lot for things he'd have done in the movies without a second thought.

Also, the clones bug me because I can't buy into their emotions and individuality since we know the murderous animals they become. Does anyone here think someone like Rex or Cody would willingly murder Jedi with a single order from the Chancellor? I don't believe it at all, as we're shown in the CW, they respect the Jedi and look up to them on the battlefield. Their unique personalities prove they could easily reject Order 66 and not become cold-blooded animals, yet as we're shown in the ROTS, they purge Jedi and even murder younglings at the Jedi Temple!



Which brings me to my last point in the rant. The Jedi youngling arc just recently shown in season 5 made me a little uneasy; I know they probably don't grow up to be Padawans as they could very well be murdered by Anakin (now Vader) in the Jedi Temple! It made me a little sad, as we attach ourselves to these characters' emotions, and yet we know what happens in the future and it sort of makes me a little disappointed. I don't know about you, but these are my pet peeves of the show.

If you have anything else I missed, please state your opinions as I like debating these issues with fellow SW geeks lol.
I agree The Clone Wars might portray things a little off. Such as some of the Clone Troopers battle dialogue sounds a bit childish and juvenile "Pep em Lads! Droid Poppers! That's the Stuff!." As much as I liked the Season 4 Episode: Darkness on Umbara, the one part I didn't like was when they dropped off the AT-RT Drivers, their dialogue made me cringe from how dumb it was. Also a lot of stuff seems dumbed down because apparently their trying to appeal to a younger audience. And yes I'm quite aware this show gets real dark with brutal killings...well as best they can get away with, so I'm not painting this show as a strictly children show.

And not just the Clone Troopers but the battle droids as well which IMO are worse. It's like in the movies where the droids went from Episode I "sorta funny" to Episode II "kinda funny" to "they are making Jar Jar look good" ridiculousness in Episode III. In this show they are so dumb and ineffective that you'd think they swapped their programming with a malevolent protocol droid instead of an actual battle droid. The older model Tactician Droids act more like the droids should be acting.

As for your points. I agree about Anakin being very different. But personally I like him like this, rather than what Hayden Christensen tried to make work. In fact I would have prefered seeing this version of Anakin in the prequels rather than Hayden's performace. If Matt Lanter was as good a live action actor as he was a Voice Actor I would have swapped him for Hayden and modified the script to make Anakin more like TCW Version anyday.

Clone Troopers murderous animals? I think that's a bit much. Most of them were simply following orders, and they were conditioned since birth to obey orders without question or fail. Some didn't follow the order, most did. To disobey their orders was treason. Another thing people seem to overlook is "we" don't know what was going on under their helmets at the time. They could have been ranging from upset to enraged and feeling betrayed because frankly Order 66 painted the Jedi Order as Traitors to the Republic which meant to them that the Jedi had betrayed them after all they've been through. There were some that flat out didn't like their Commanders to begin with though like Bacara who was often at odds with Ki Adi Mundi or Faie who's strict attitude was often at odds with Quinlan Vos' roguish anything goes attitude.

Besides....I always favored the armored guys in Star Wars over the Jedi/Sith so I really could care less that they execute Order 66 to be honest. BLASTERS FTW!

As for those Younglings...we don't know that. For all you know they could have survive the Order by being elsewhere.
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Pingonaut's Avatar


Pingonaut
01.21.2013 , 08:29 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Sith_Kingpin View Post
Very true. I'm aware not all clones followed the order. However, the vast majority (probably more than 99%) obeyed Order 66 and purged the Jedi without remorse. Now, this doesn't resonate with me as I can't see the clones being as emotionally tied and invested as they are in the CW cartoon. This is all subjective opinion, and is not fact.

I hope Rex turns out to be a defector as he learnt a lot from that clone who left the army and had a Twilek hybrid family on a farm. Anyway, yeah I agree it's good seeing Anakin in a different light... but surely he couldn't have changed from a whiny brat, into a good master, and then back into a whiny brat for the start of ROTS, as there's only a 3 year gap in which his personality change can occur lol.
They had semi-remorse. They were good guys, but they were trained in a way to follow that order. They almost had no choice (some refused and saved Jedi) because they were raised that way.
Order 66 pretty much told them "The Jedi, your friends, have betrayed you and everyone you love. Kill them." And since they didn't know about Palpatine being the Emperor they trusted that it was true.

Thylbanus's Avatar


Thylbanus
01.22.2013 , 11:12 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Sith_Kingpin View Post
I'm not saying I don't like the show because I do. It's just, they've done a few things in which make me raise my eyebrows. For example, in the movies, Anakin was a hot-headed, whiny brat who was bordering on selfish. In the CW cartoon, they changed his character completely and make him a respectful master to Ahsoka, as he chastises her a lot for things he'd have done in the movies without a second thought.
Not really. How many relationship consulars are single or have multiple divorces. Sometimes people can give great advice, yet be unable to follow it themselves. The series takes place in between Ep. 2 and 3, and I don't see any inconsistencies with Anakin. In the show he still demonstrates his hot-headedness and seems to reign in this (sometimes) around Asoka. Sometimes being a teacher is the best learning experience one ever has.

Quote:
Also, the clones bug me because I can't buy into their emotions and individuality since we know the murderous animals they become. Does anyone here think someone like Rex or Cody would willingly murder Jedi with a single order from the Chancellor? I don't believe it at all, as we're shown in the CW, they respect the Jedi and look up to them on the battlefield. Their unique personalities prove they could easily reject Order 66 and not become cold-blooded animals, yet as we're shown in the ROTS, they purge Jedi and even murder younglings at the Jedi Temple!
For one, clones are not "murderous animals." They never are. They are soldiers. They follow orders. Plain and simple. The fact that they have obidience written into them genetically, makes this even more understandable. Not following orders can have disastrous consequences that you may not be able to predict because you don't have all the facts.

To look at in other terms, you are assigned to protect a rising leader. He pulls your country from starvation and chaos and makes an orderly and prosperous society. People have jobs, are fed, have a sence of pride again. Just then, you are given orders to kill him. You have seen no outward signs of any wrong doing. He charming, charismatic, he has been kind to you and your family. He has given you everything you could want as a person and member of society. Well by now, you must realise I'm speaking of Hitler. Without the hindsight of history, would you have followed the order?

Being clones, following orders is hardwired into them. Yes, there are some failures: genetic defects. Traitors are genetic defects. The chancelor is commander and chief. The only real way to disobey would be to have a genetic defect. Liking your orders and following them are two different things.

Quote:
Which brings me to my last point in the rant. The Jedi youngling arc just recently shown in season 5 made me a little uneasy; I know they probably don't grow up to be Padawans as they could very well be murdered by Anakin (now Vader) in the Jedi Temple! It made me a little sad, as we attach ourselves to these characters' emotions, and yet we know what happens in the future and it sort of makes me a little disappointed. I don't know about you, but these are my pet peeves of the show.

If you have anything else I missed, please state your opinions as I like debating these issues with fellow SW geeks lol.
Well we know that is the fate of Asoka as well. Does Vader kill her or does she die, giving us one more piece of the puzzle for the fall of Anakin (foreshadowed by Yoda in the pilot movie)? We will have to follow this storyline to conclusion to find out. Considering that Matt Latner and Ashley Eckstein had a private recording session for the final episode for season 5, suggests the whole of the CW storyarc is going to receive some dramatic shake up. And as usual, Dave Feloni is being coy about it.

So, no I don't see the stark contradictions you do. And by definition, since George is the lead on this, it really can't be wrong.
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phalczen
01.22.2013 , 11:56 AM | #9
Wrongly is a fleeting term, since George determines what is accurate and inaccurate according to his vision of the sw mythology.

Recently H2 (history channel 2) re-broadcasted a 2007 documentary on the mythology of star wars. A few big names were in it, like Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw, JJ Abrams, Peter Jackson, and Kevin Smith, even Steven Colbert. Anyway, they trace the stories of all 6 movies and how the characters and plotlines mimic greek mythology, more modern "Classic Westerns," even historical events (like the rise of Nazi Germany and other dictators). None of this is news the people who follow SW of course, but I do think if you view TCW as expanding on those themes, it makes more sense.
I wouldn't get too uptight about the regular battle droids. They are fodder in the movies and comic foil in a Saturday morning cartoon.
As for Anakin ... what we all describe as being a whiny brat is unbridled emotion and passion. He showed it even in the episode from two weekends ago, when he urgently ordered a salvage team to go after R2-D2 without any regard for determining if the sector was secure ... after all, it had just been bombed. I am sure we will see more of his attachment issues as the series delves more into the secret married life between Amidala and Skywalker.
The only issue I have at this point with the clone wars was the introduction of the New Mandalorians as pacifists, and more recently the assassination of the black sun leader by the reborn Darth Maul in this past weekends episode. I'm sure the retconners are rushing to explain Prince Xizor's leadership of black sun in light of that episode.
Still, you have to acknowledge the slight nod to Star Wars Galaxies that the episode provided, explaining why the black sun and death watch started working together (they work together in the death watch bunker dungeon on Endor in the game and to make and market the restuss crusader armor to both sides of the GCW)

Sith_Kingpin's Avatar


Sith_Kingpin
01.22.2013 , 01:23 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Thylbanus View Post
Not really. How many relationship consulars are single or have multiple divorces. Sometimes people can give great advice, yet be unable to follow it themselves. The series takes place in between Ep. 2 and 3, and I don't see any inconsistencies with Anakin. In the show he still demonstrates his hot-headedness and seems to reign in this (sometimes) around Asoka. Sometimes being a teacher is the best learning experience one ever has.



For one, clones are not "murderous animals." They never are. They are soldiers. They follow orders. Plain and simple. The fact that they have obidience written into them genetically, makes this even more understandable. Not following orders can have disastrous consequences that you may not be able to predict because you don't have all the facts.

To look at in other terms, you are assigned to protect a rising leader. He pulls your country from starvation and chaos and makes an orderly and prosperous society. People have jobs, are fed, have a sence of pride again. Just then, you are given orders to kill him. You have seen no outward signs of any wrong doing. He charming, charismatic, he has been kind to you and your family. He has given you everything you could want as a person and member of society. Well by now, you must realise I'm speaking of Hitler. Without the hindsight of history, would you have followed the order?

Being clones, following orders is hardwired into them. Yes, there are some failures: genetic defects. Traitors are genetic defects. The chancelor is commander and chief. The only real way to disobey would be to have a genetic defect. Liking your orders and following them are two different things.



Well we know that is the fate of Asoka as well. Does Vader kill her or does she die, giving us one more piece of the puzzle for the fall of Anakin (foreshadowed by Yoda in the pilot movie)? We will have to follow this storyline to conclusion to find out. Considering that Matt Latner and Ashley Eckstein had a private recording session for the final episode for season 5, suggests the whole of the CW storyarc is going to receive some dramatic shake up. And as usual, Dave Feloni is being coy about it.

So, no I don't see the stark contradictions you do. And by definition, since George is the lead on this, it really can't be wrong.
I have to disagree with you there. To say the clones were only obeying orders is a little bit bold. The Nazis only obeyed orders, were they not murderous animals during their genocide? I watched ROTS recently, and the way they not only murder the Jedi, but continually shoot them even when they're down and dead is remorseless to me. They were the root of so much death across the galaxy, and killing children is unacceptable. You can say they're genetically engineered, but TCW doesn't show them to be mindless drones -- it shows them having individuality and intellect. So, they could easily disobey the order as they form friendships and bonds with their Jedi Generals.

Admittedly, wrongly was the incorrect word as GL has final say on his vision of the SW universe. What I meant was, I personally have small problems with the points I raised, they don't bug me too much as I still love the show and watch it on a weekly basis. It's just, every time I see the clones, I always think they're as heartless as Death Watch and have a capacity to murder as shown in ROTS when they hunt down Jedi without a care in the world.