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Next two playable races

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Dzan's Avatar


Dzan
01.21.2013 , 09:02 AM | #211
Quote: Originally Posted by HotStuff_SW View Post
Just to toss in something else. We have a Mon Calamari companion for Smugglers. Mine wears all of my hand-me-down armor and it works just fine. They simply do not show the helmet or gloves. Everything else works.

I would think that the lack of being able to squeeze their head into a standard helmet shouldn't bar a species from consideration. Ditto the hands and even the feet. I'm sure most people who want species that differ in head/hands/feet would be content to go without helmets/gloves/boots to have them.

I could be wrong, of course. :-)
I am with you on that

Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
01.21.2013 , 12:04 PM | #212
Quote: Originally Posted by CelCawdro View Post
I think I should add here that I know quite a few people who have literally stopped playing (if they started in the first place) because that cannot create a character that they can actually relate to. And yes, that is because there is a lack of the the more exotic alien species (ie. non-Near-humans). Quite frankly, I probably wouldn't be playing (or even picked them game up in the first place) if I hadn't had an interest in the Sith species before SW:TOR came around. BioWare absolutely loves to talk about the relatability of our characters, but have essentially robbed us of the ability to relate because our favourite species weren't included.

Human beings are wonderfully empathetic creatures, able to relate to virtually anything: other people, animals, plants, inanimate objects (both natural and artificial) and even abstract concepts that have no physical presence. It is almost offensive to trivialize this human capacity by stating that a human face is needed to be able to relate to something.
I agree completly the only reason I still play is because its star wars and I keep hoping we will get better alien species. However they have lost a lot of people who wanted to play aliens. Maybe if they add better species they will get them back but they had better hope a new MMO with decent alien species doesn't come out.

The comunity has offered suggestion after suggestion on how aliens could be introduced and they have all been ignored.

publicenemies's Avatar


publicenemies
01.21.2013 , 01:58 PM | #213
Quote: Originally Posted by Izorii View Post
I agree completly the only reason I still play is because its star wars and I keep hoping we will get better alien species. However they have lost a lot of people who wanted to play aliens. Maybe if they add better species they will get them back but they had better hope a new MMO with decent alien species doesn't come out.

The comunity has offered suggestion after suggestion on how aliens could be introduced and they have all been ignored.
Thats my point about the swg former community who used to play wookies,rodians they lost that entire market in beta. The real issue is the voice over crap i dont buy this skinning issue and relating to your toon and all this garbage. Its all about the voice over's and thats why i absolutely hate them. If we didnt have voice overs wed have wookies rodians and lot more for sure.

I agree though they threw away that whole alien race market away for reskinning the human models and calling them other things i.e a blue human is a chiss etc

You know i find it funny how damian is talking about uniqueness and relating to a character and yet all the toons are the same model lol a blue human is a blue human not a chiss they cant even get what we have right now and thier complaining about how much it costs to lift a finger sigh

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
01.21.2013 , 03:08 PM | #214
The biggest obstacle to non-basic speaking alien races for this game is that the non-basic speech already in this game is a short list of sound loops that are all pure gibberish.
1. There are less than a dozen Huttese sound loops used over and over, throughout the game, by all Huttese speaking male NPCs of any player species.
2. The companions that don't speak basic seem to be limited to less than 5 sound loops.

This is why non-basic alien languages result in screen smashing boredom. Because it isn't real language. There is no syntax, or grammatical structure. Games are horrible for reusing alien language sound files too frequently. This game is no different. Jawas, Hutts, droids, Talz, Wookies, Ortolans, Chevin, thus far have all reused a short list of "species" specific audio files. And these are memorized very quickly.

And this why any non-basic speaking race ever added to the game, will probably be limited to a racial class. Opening up the other 8 class stories to a non-basic speaking race would require all of the VO work to be rerecorded twice, once for each gender.
1. ONE non-basic speaking race that uses the existing class stories = 16 complete VO tracks
2. ONE non-basic speaking race limited to a single class story = 2 complete VO tracks.

Even if the non-basic speaking race were confined to a single class story, a unique syntax and grammar would have to be used just to make the VO work sound authentic. Otherwise, by the time you play through to endgame, you will have memorized all of the sound loops, and the cutscenes will have become a repetitive grind ~ even when your doing missions for the first time.

It's a massive can of worms ~ they have to find a VO actor who can teach themselves a language that doesn't exist, and not repeat themselves except when they should. The creative process would go something like this.
1. write the script for the VO work
2. create a dictionary from that script - either in the form of whole words or phoenetic sounds
3. assign an audio file to each of those words or phoenetic sounds. (recorded VO)
4. construct sample audio loops that match the script ~ these will sound like a telephone robot version
5. Re-record the sample audio loops using VO actors & actresses

This, or something similar, are really the only ways to achieve a realistic sound for the amount of VO work needed for a non-basic speaking species.

This is possibly less VO work than creating English, French, German, Japanese, Korean, & Spanish, language files for a new basic speaking class story.
1. ONE new basic speaking race with a new class story = 12 complete VO tracks (male & female)
2. ONE new non-basic speaking race with a new class story = 2 complete VO tracks (male & female)

Conclusions:
1. Non - basic speaking races are the cheaper way to go for BW to introduce new classes
2. Basic speaking races are the best way for BW to introduce new races to the existing classes.
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

publicenemies's Avatar


publicenemies
01.21.2013 , 04:14 PM | #215
Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
The biggest obstacle to non-basic speaking alien races for this game is that the non-basic speech already in this game is a short list of sound loops that are all pure gibberish.
1. There are less than a dozen Huttese sound loops used over and over, throughout the game, by all Huttese speaking male NPCs of any player species.
2. The companions that don't speak basic seem to be limited to less than 5 sound loops.

This is why non-basic alien languages result in screen smashing boredom. Because it isn't real language. There is no syntax, or grammatical structure. Games are horrible for reusing alien language sound files too frequently. This game is no different. Jawas, Hutts, droids, Talz, Wookies, Ortolans, Chevin, thus far have all reused a short list of "species" specific audio files. And these are memorized very quickly.

And this why any non-basic speaking race ever added to the game, will probably be limited to a racial class. Opening up the other 8 class stories to a non-basic speaking race would require all of the VO work to be rerecorded twice, once for each gender.
1. ONE non-basic speaking race that uses the existing class stories = 16 complete VO tracks
2. ONE non-basic speaking race limited to a single class story = 2 complete VO tracks.

Even if the non-basic speaking race were confined to a single class story, a unique syntax and grammar would have to be used just to make the VO work sound authentic. Otherwise, by the time you play through to endgame, you will have memorized all of the sound loops, and the cutscenes will have become a repetitive grind ~ even when your doing missions for the first time.

It's a massive can of worms ~ they have to find a VO actor who can teach themselves a language that doesn't exist, and not repeat themselves except when they should. The creative process would go something like this.
1. write the script for the VO work
2. create a dictionary from that script - either in the form of whole words or phoenetic sounds
3. assign an audio file to each of those words or phoenetic sounds. (recorded VO)
4. construct sample audio loops that match the script ~ these will sound like a telephone robot version
5. Re-record the sample audio loops using VO actors & actresses

This, or something similar, are really the only ways to achieve a realistic sound for the amount of VO work needed for a non-basic speaking species.

This is possibly less VO work than creating English, French, German, Japanese, Korean, & Spanish, language files for a new basic speaking class story.
1. ONE new basic speaking race with a new class story = 12 complete VO tracks (male & female)
2. ONE new non-basic speaking race with a new class story = 2 complete VO tracks (male & female)

Conclusions:
1. Non - basic speaking races are the cheaper way to go for BW to introduce new classes
2. Basic speaking races are the best way for BW to introduce new races to the existing classes.
in other words lets take a human paint them orange put stripes on them hello cathars!

Heres an idea have tose alien races use there ship companion as a translator bypassing the needed voice over work. Seriously this is what i mean jabba had c3p0 as a translator it would solve a lot of issues.

Larry_Dallas's Avatar


Larry_Dallas
01.21.2013 , 04:54 PM | #216
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.
Just wanted to say this type of detailed, blunt developer feedback is very, very welcome.

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
01.22.2013 , 09:25 AM | #217
Quote: Originally Posted by publicenemies View Post
in other words lets take a human paint them orange put stripes on them hello cathars!

Heres an idea have tose alien races use there ship companion as a translator bypassing the needed voice over work. Seriously this is what i mean jabba had c3p0 as a translator it would solve a lot of issues.
While a translator would let you hear the Basic version of the language, it wouldn't make sense for the character to never speak. So you'd still have to do the whole VO work described in the post above yours.

If new races are extremely popular, I could see that amount of work being done a loooong way down the road, but the Basic-speaking races are going to be easier and cheaper, by far, to create. They're not going to take on that much work without a pretty good idea that it would be profitable.
aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
---------------
Fan Fiction: My Name is Solomon Crae The Man in the Box

Izorii's Avatar


Izorii
01.22.2013 , 11:58 AM | #218
I doubt we will ever see a new class for a species that can not speak basic unless he gets a protocol droid straight off. While it would not bother me the idea of fully voice acting is a selling point. Even if anyone who has got to level 10 soon releases how many phrases are repeated for each class, I think a trooper must say "Yes sir" and "Whats in it for me" as his only replys to a dozen conversations before he leaves the starter planet.

However we have already accepted that all Troopers regardless of appearance sound the same so why not included this to new species. We have Pure Blood troopers with the same dialog as a human so it makes sence Kel'dor, Trandoshan and mon cal troopers would have the same dialog. As for the clipping issue I am running on high graphics and my blaster on my back chases me its a good few inches from my back, it goes magicly through objects and everyone knows that jedi training sabers stick right into their butts in training robes and they will impale themselves hundreds of times through the game with the light sabers. If all these clipping issues have yet to be looked at and we accepted them I am sure to play a species we want to play we will accept that some times a Mon Cals hand fins will go through his robes or a Kel'dors mouth might chew into his collar.

Dzan's Avatar


Dzan
01.23.2013 , 11:48 AM | #219
Quote: Originally Posted by Izorii View Post
However we have already accepted that all Troopers regardless of appearance sound the same so why not included this to new species. We have Pure Blood troopers with the same dialog as a human so it makes sence Kel'dor, Trandoshan and mon cal troopers would have the same dialog. As for the clipping issue I am running on high graphics and my blaster on my back chases me its a good few inches from my back, it goes magicly through objects and everyone knows that jedi training sabers stick right into their butts in training robes and they will impale themselves hundreds of times through the game with the light sabers. If all these clipping issues have yet to be looked at and we accepted them I am sure to play a species we want to play we will accept that some times a Mon Cals hand fins will go through his robes or a Kel'dors mouth might chew into his collar.
Totally agree with you

CrazyOldMystic's Avatar


CrazyOldMystic
01.23.2013 , 12:05 PM | #220
Wookiees, Rodians, and Trandoshans. Wookiees for republic only. Rodians for both Empire and Republic. Lastly Trandoshans for Empire only. As the story line seems to indicate the Republic has a dislike for the Trandoshans, and the Empire is exploiting that to their advantage.