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Could the Death Star destroy the One Ring?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Could the Death Star destroy the One Ring?

_Darkstar's Avatar


_Darkstar
01.21.2013 , 05:41 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
"The Ring cannot be destroyed, Gimli Son of Gloin, by any craft that we here possess. The Ring was made in the fires of Mount Doom. Only there can it be un-made."- Elrond Half-Elven of Imladris

It is protected by The Dark Lord's Dark Magic. It can only be destroyed by the fires that forged it.
As demonstrated in LoTR where that girl kills that dude, magic is worded very specifically. So if the ring was forged with magic that talked about "any craft that we here possess" then yes the Death Star probably could destroy it, because the magic would not have been created to defend from that type of power.

In fact a standard laser could probably have destroyed it.

If the creation magic was "Only there can it be unmade" then the ring would be quite safe.
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vactus's Avatar


vactus
01.21.2013 , 09:41 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by _Darkstar View Post
As demonstrated in LoTR where that girl kills that dude, magic is worded very specifically. So if the ring was forged with magic that talked about "any craft that we here possess" then yes the Death Star probably could destroy it, because the magic would not have been created to defend from that type of power.

In fact a standard laser could probably have destroyed it.

If the creation magic was "Only there can it be unmade" then the ring would be quite safe.
Lucky for the One Ring creation was "only there can it be unmade"

However, a friend of mine schooled me on LOTR lore when I posted this thread on my FB. Basically if the planet was destroyed, than that means the Maia and Valur (sp?) would also be destroyed. Hence the Sauron is dead, the ring is now just a gold ring. His soul/power no longer inhabits a portion of the ring. A second shot would take the ring itself. I'll repost that info here in an edit.

EDIT: [My friend Jerry]
i consider myself a Tolkien master and i will have to say that when the world was created in the Silmarillion, it was created by music, making the possibility for a deathstar to be made impossible, due to the lack of nuclear material necessary to power it. but if we where to cross realities, then we have to take in the fact that Ea is a planet while the Deathstar is a planet destoyer, and without the existence of the planet, the Valar would not exist, and if Aule dies, then sauron dies, no matter what. plus, there is no space defence on either Middle-Earth or Aman. thus, Deathstar>One Ring

the ring is a hoarcrux, and it has a spell that makes it indestructible except for the fires in which forged it, for they are the hottest fires in all of Ea. yet the existence of the Maiar is dependent on the existence of the Valar they served and who created them. in the Silmarillion, Eru, the father of the Valar, stated that if Ea should break, then all life would end. if Aule should die, so would Sauron, and the one ring would just be a piece of gold floating around in space. Deathstar>One Ring [/My Friend Jerry]
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Ithilwen's Avatar


Ithilwen
01.21.2013 , 09:56 PM | #23
^ This although I haven't read the Silmarilian... (too hard for me to get into) that sounds a lot like what I have read about what the book is about xD ...

Quote: Originally Posted by Necrosaro View Post
Doesn't matter if it can destroy it or not, if it blows up the planet then the ring will be tossed through space if it survives. A ring is very very small, the chance that it hits any planet is very very small and it would probably take hundreds if not thousands of years for that to happen if it ever did. Heck it could just as easily fall into a black hole or into a star and get stuck there forever.
But don't you know? The Ring has a will of its own, it will find its way to someone's poket! ...

Anyway, although the above poster pretty much ended the discussion with a quote from thier friend . I like to think of the Ring as a Horcrux like in Harry Potter, after all, a portion of Souron's soul is inside the Ring, making it so indestructible and giving it the power to influence/manipulate the people around it. Also, i'm pretty sure at some point or another Mount Doom's fires are refered to as being cursed, which also fits in with the Harry Potter horcruxes and one of the ways to destroy them being with cursed flames
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TheSelkie's Avatar


TheSelkie
01.22.2013 , 09:49 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by vactus View Post
Lucky for the One Ring creation was "only there can it be unmade"

However, a friend of mine schooled me on LOTR lore when I posted this thread on my FB. Basically if the planet was destroyed, than that means the Maia and Valur (sp?) would also be destroyed. Hence the Sauron is dead, the ring is now just a gold ring. His soul/power no longer inhabits a portion of the ring. A second shot would take the ring itself. I'll repost that info here in an edit.

EDIT: [My friend Jerry]
i consider myself a Tolkien master and i will have to say that when the world was created in the Silmarillion, it was created by music, making the possibility for a deathstar to be made impossible, due to the lack of nuclear material necessary to power it. but if we where to cross realities, then we have to take in the fact that Ea is a planet while the Deathstar is a planet destoyer, and without the existence of the planet, the Valar would not exist, and if Aule dies, then sauron dies, no matter what. plus, there is no space defence on either Middle-Earth or Aman. thus, Deathstar>One Ring

the ring is a hoarcrux, and it has a spell that makes it indestructible except for the fires in which forged it, for they are the hottest fires in all of Ea. yet the existence of the Maiar is dependent on the existence of the Valar they served and who created them. in the Silmarillion, Eru, the father of the Valar, stated that if Ea should break, then all life would end. if Aule should die, so would Sauron, and the one ring would just be a piece of gold floating around in space. Deathstar>One Ring [/My Friend Jerry]
And Jerry wins the thread.
One question though: it's been a while (7ish years) since I read the books, but surely Sauron isn't taking any physical form at the time (assuming it occurs during the war of the ring)? Unless destroying the dark tower and the eye somehow destroys Sauron, wouldn't he still remain as his spirit (and thus the ring would maintain it's power)? Can't argue with the quote from Eru though. Except possibly that the Valar and Maiar can't really die? Could be wrong there though, as I said it's been a few years.

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.22.2013 , 10:40 AM | #25
he has physical form during lord of the ring series - the eye is just a metaphore that Jackson twisted into some horrible idea that we have seen in the movies. I will refrain from commenting the rest of it because this whole topic is more like one of those that younglings make: what if son goku fight with supermannnn.
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
01.22.2013 , 12:47 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by vactus View Post
Lucky for the One Ring creation was "only there can it be unmade"

However, a friend of mine schooled me on LOTR lore when I posted this thread on my FB. Basically if the planet was destroyed, than that means the Maia and Valur (sp?) would also be destroyed. Hence the Sauron is dead, the ring is now just a gold ring. His soul/power no longer inhabits a portion of the ring. A second shot would take the ring itself. I'll repost that info here in an edit.

EDIT: [My friend Jerry]
i consider myself a Tolkien master and i will have to say that when the world was created in the Silmarillion, it was created by music, making the possibility for a deathstar to be made impossible, due to the lack of nuclear material necessary to power it. but if we where to cross realities, then we have to take in the fact that Ea is a planet while the Deathstar is a planet destoyer, and without the existence of the planet, the Valar would not exist, and if Aule dies, then sauron dies, no matter what. plus, there is no space defence on either Middle-Earth or Aman. thus, Deathstar>One Ring

the ring is a hoarcrux, and it has a spell that makes it indestructible except for the fires in which forged it, for they are the hottest fires in all of Ea. yet the existence of the Maiar is dependent on the existence of the Valar they served and who created them. in the Silmarillion, Eru, the father of the Valar, stated that if Ea should break, then all life would end. if Aule should die, so would Sauron, and the one ring would just be a piece of gold floating around in space. Deathstar>One Ring [/My Friend Jerry]

I think I disagree with Jerry. After Arda became round*, Valinor isn't any longer part of the planet. Its unclear if it is another planet/moon now or if it just floats there in space.

The Valar seem very comparable to the Ones from the Mortis arc in The Clone Wars. They are definitly magical entities = Force entities, so I think the Death Star wouldn't affect them. ("The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.") It wouldn't completely destroy Maiar like Sauron either, I guess. Sauron's spirit escaped from Numenor** after all, so he might be lingering around in space an it might even be easier for him to find the ring, which is also floating around in space.

But what if some Jedi (many Jedi) created a permanent Wall of Light around the Ring? Would it become useless for Sauron, because he couldn't connect with it anymore?


*For those who haven't read it: the World with middle earth on it was once flat. But then some humans wanted to conquere Valinor because there the immortal Valar and Elves were living and they thought they could steal Immortality from them. Iluvatar (=God) buried them under some mountains, sunk their home (the Island Numenor) into the sea and removed Valinor from Arda, while giving Arda planet shape.

**Sauron was on Numenor during this time. He fell into the abyss and his physical form was destroyed. But his spirit got out of it, taking the ring with him.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
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TheSelkie's Avatar


TheSelkie
01.22.2013 , 01:17 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Surinen View Post
he has physical form during lord of the ring series - the eye is just a metaphor
Where is his physical form during the series? I thought he existed purely as his spirit after he was defeated, but until the ring was destroyed he would always sort of exist? An "as long as the ring exists, so does he" sort of situation.

legolegion's Avatar


legolegion
01.22.2013 , 01:56 PM | #28
Okay the answer is NO
why the death star yes could blow a planet up
but could not destroy phrik metal http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Phrik
Should the Rebel Base on Yavin 4 ever be discovered, Bail Prestor Organa created a holocron containing information on a list of other possible replacement planets. This holocron was left on Alderaan at the time of its destruction. However, the phrik container was so durable that it was able to withstand the Death Star's attack, and was later picked up by Han Solo's Renegade Squadron in order to find a new base.[5]It was also thought to be used to build battle droids in the days of the Clone Wars.
so death star could not destroy this metal, so it could not destroy a metal designed by a servant of the gods

Surinen's Avatar


Surinen
01.22.2013 , 07:15 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by TheSelkie View Post
Where is his physical form during the series? I thought he existed purely as his spirit after he was defeated, but until the ring was destroyed he would always sort of exist? An "as long as the ring exists, so does he" sort of situation.
he was in his Mordor's residence all the time
Aperture Science. We do what we must, because we can. For the good of all of us- Except the ones who are dead.

vactus's Avatar


vactus
01.22.2013 , 10:45 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
I think I disagree with Jerry. After Arda became round*, Valinor isn't any longer part of the planet. Its unclear if it is another planet/moon now or if it just floats there in space.

The Valar seem very comparable to the Ones from the Mortis arc in The Clone Wars. They are definitly magical entities = Force entities, so I think the Death Star wouldn't affect them. ("The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.") It wouldn't completely destroy Maiar like Sauron either, I guess. Sauron's spirit escaped from Numenor** after all, so he might be lingering around in space an it might even be easier for him to find the ring, which is also floating around in space.

But what if some Jedi (many Jedi) created a permanent Wall of Light around the Ring? Would it become useless for Sauron, because he couldn't connect with it anymore?


*For those who haven't read it: the World with middle earth on it was once flat. But then some humans wanted to conquere Valinor because there the immortal Valar and Elves were living and they thought they could steal Immortality from them. Iluvatar (=God) buried them under some mountains, sunk their home (the Island Numenor) into the sea and removed Valinor from Arda, while giving Arda planet shape.

**Sauron was on Numenor during this time. He fell into the abyss and his physical form was destroyed. But his spirit got out of it, taking the ring with him.
Interesting. The discussion didn't continue on much passed Jerry putting that in the FB thread so I'm going to defer to the two of you if this question ever swings my way again. Been way too long since I've kept up on LOTR continuity with the EU stuff.
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