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comparing sorcs and snipers


wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
01.21.2013 , 01:31 AM | #1
let me start off by stating i love my sorc, and to a lesser degree my sage as well
i love casters, i played a warlock main in wow, and mage in rift
so obviously the only choice for me in swtor was the sorcerer

however there are other ranged bretheren in this game, snipers and mercs (and their respective mirrors)
to a certain degree this argue could be made by mercs as well but here goes..

Bioware obviously recognized that ranged classes need some tools for pvp survival... that is why they in fact gave them.. all.. to snipers, i will be comparing mostly the markmenship tree.

knockbacks:
snipers knockback is baseline a 2-5 second root, and can be spec'd to knockback further, if i am also correct it knocks back in a 360% radius rather than a cone like ours, also our knockback has NO baseline root (must be spec'd) and no option to increase the distance

cover vs mobility:
at first glance one would say sorcs have much more mobility than snipers, which is im part true but by choosing the sniper class you have chosen stationary dmg dealing primarily. however one key point is overlooked.. as a sorc.. you mobility is severely hindered in pvp most of the time, charges, roots and pulls often ruin most chances of escape and rubber-banding after a sprint is all too common. as a sniper why would u need mobility if you cant be charged or grappled in the first place?

force slow vs leg shot:
there is no comparison here, as a sorc advance class forc slow should immobilize without a doubt, its obvious ranged class need a root, thats why snipers got them.. we got a slow.. which usually only matches the current snare on ourselves.

dmg output:
with no exagerration i can confidently say sniper burst just about doubles that of a sorc. any of u whom have been free shot at by a sniper with no line of sight know just how ridiculous their burst is... ours is slow and unsteady, bioware understands that ranged classes are plagued by LOS therefor snipers were given a very hard hitting execute ability with immense range..... sorcs got nothing.

resource management:
sorc hybrids win this, however i will note that snipers have a ranged recource free attack, whereas when a sorc is out of resource we must turn masochistic

survival:
a.)i already mentioned the cover, and how sorcs are helpless but to be chain charged and pulled. but as well bioware understands ranged need some immunity to cc..... therefor snipers were giving entrench, spec'd to a 45 second cooldown... so every 45 seconds the sniper can be immune to ALL FORMS OF CC for 20 seconds.. wait a fkign second... so 20seconds out of every 45 seconds they can be immune to EVERYTHING? holy god

b.) both classes have a 4s stun with minimal range. BUT, snipers have a range aoe mezz BASELINE, compared to our single target mezz with a baseline activation time

c.) to a lesser extent let me add that snipers wear an armor grade above us and do have small defense and dmg reduction abilities available to them in their marks tree.



in conclusiou *** BW. you obviously recognize the need for BURST DMG, survivability, and cc for a ranged class, im just not quite sure why it was given all to snipers... which my sorc left in the dust eating 7k smashes while im rooted in place .

im not looking to become OP gods, however our dmg is very lackluster, at 960 bonus dmg i barely ever crit for 4k, we are the number one target due to our squishyness. our activation time abilities have NO PAYOFF... and we have no immunites of defenses against the hordes of fotm monkeys charging our way.
NIHIL

THE BASTION

wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
01.21.2013 , 01:32 AM | #2
feel free to add missed comparison points
NIHIL

THE BASTION

fungihoujo's Avatar


fungihoujo
01.21.2013 , 02:17 AM | #3
Snipers, dpswise, are absolutely better than sorcs in every way- in fact, snipers are the only viable ranged DPS in this game. They do way more burst, have good CC, have great defensive mechanics, and have well defined roles they excel at in warzones.

But, above all- the lack of any other ranged dps that holds a candle to them, and how OP mara and juggs are both are what make snipers so strong- since snipers directly counter mara/juggs.

If mercs or sorcs were the two OP classes, or even sins and operatives were more common- snipers might not be so great since a mobile ranged DPS class would ignore most of the sniper's defensive ability, and stealthers can reduce the gap with ease.

Long as mara/juggs are so OP though- snipers will be pretty much the only DPS counter to them.

wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
01.21.2013 , 02:28 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
Snipers, dpswise, are absolutely better than sorcs in every way- in fact, snipers are the only viable ranged DPS in this game. They do way more burst, have good CC, have great defensive mechanics, and have well defined roles they excel at in warzones.

But, above all- the lack of any other ranged dps that holds a candle to them, and how OP mara and juggs are both are what make snipers so strong- since snipers directly counter mara/juggs.

If mercs or sorcs were the two OP classes, or even sins and operatives were more common- snipers might not be so great since a mobile ranged DPS class would ignore most of the sniper's defensive ability, and stealthers can reduce the gap with ease.

Long as mara/juggs are so OP though- snipers will be pretty much the only DPS counter to them.
good point.

BUT

a sniper doesnt need his defenses vs a sorc.. although handy.. if it is a ranged dps race.. the sniper will win with about 50% hp left especially in consideration of a 5k execute ability
NIHIL

THE BASTION

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
01.21.2013 , 04:47 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by wwkingms View Post
good point.

BUT

a sniper doesnt need his defenses vs a sorc.. although handy.. if it is a ranged dps race.. the sniper will win with about 50% hp left especially in consideration of a 5k execute ability
This is not to mention a lack of ways for a the sorceror class to stop the sniper's damage. With the sniper's entrench and interrupt immunity the few abilities a sorcerer has to mitigate the damage taken don't work, LOS is the only option.
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

MilanoChris's Avatar


MilanoChris
01.21.2013 , 05:46 AM | #6
OP has a very valid point. Snipers DPS in PVE is also a lot higher.

BTW, if you don't like snipers, level a shadow/assassin in deception and own them.

Chemic_al's Avatar


Chemic_al
01.21.2013 , 10:52 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralParmesan View Post
This is not to mention a lack of ways for a the sorceror class to stop the sniper's damage. With the sniper's entrench and interrupt immunity the few abilities a sorcerer has to mitigate the damage taken don't work, LOS is the only option.
Yep not even a 30m stun anymore, leaves the resolve filling whirlwind your only option.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
01.22.2013 , 10:04 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by wwkingms View Post
good point.

BUT

a sniper doesnt need his defenses vs a sorc.. although handy.. if it is a ranged dps race.. the sniper will win with about 50% hp left especially in consideration of a 5k execute ability
Thing is, if there's LOS, a Madness Sorc/Balance Sage can troll a Sniper to extreme lenghts of frustration. But that requires time, of course, which you often don't have in warzones.

Xeraz's Avatar


Xeraz
01.22.2013 , 08:38 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by fungihoujo View Post
Snipers, dpswise, are absolutely better than sorcs in every way- in fact, snipers are the only viable ranged DPS in this game. They do way more burst, have good CC, have great defensive mechanics, and have well defined roles they excel at in warzones.

But, above all- the lack of any other ranged dps that holds a candle to them, and how OP mara and juggs are both are what make snipers so strong- since snipers directly counter mara/juggs.

If mercs or sorcs were the two OP classes, or even sins and operatives were more common- snipers might not be so great since a mobile ranged DPS class would ignore most of the sniper's defensive ability, and stealthers can reduce the gap with ease.

Long as mara/juggs are so OP though- snipers will be pretty much the only DPS counter to them.
I fully agree with everything in this post and feel it shows a really good understanding of the game.
"Who I am is not important, my message is."

Edonidd's Avatar


Edonidd
01.22.2013 , 09:28 PM | #10
Don't forget the utility of Plasma Probe for Node denial, the extreme damage of Orbital Strike, the group utility of Balistic Shield, the survivability increase from Shield Probe and Evasion, and last but not least the free resources of Adrenaline Probe.

In fact while in the Healing tree Sorcerers can use spec points so that they only use 11% and don't lower their regeration at all in order to get a 8% resource return. Snipers get a free 50% of their energy every 2 mins baseline and up to every minute with spec points. To start a fight you can even use it twice in a row for a free 100% energy, you just have to wait a whole minute to do that again. Actually with spec points Snipers can actually GAIN 6% of their total health in order to get 50% resources. Without spec points they don't get the health back. But without spec points Sorc's give up 15%!?! of their total health in order to get 8% of their resources.

Sorcerers were not designed to be limited by their resources unlike every other class. But in the infinite wisdom of Bioware they also decided to punish Sorcerers more than any other class if they did run out. Every step of the process they add 2 and 2 and kept coming up with 5. There isn't one aspect of the way they put the sorcerer class together that actually makes any sense.