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Next two playable races

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Sage's Avatar


Sage
01.19.2013 , 06:29 PM | #181
Why are people being so ridiculously unrealistic? BW are not going to reinvent their playable species list without incentive. So, if you eventually want Kel Dor, Togruta, Nautolan etc. (I know I do) then we have to put up with some closer-to-human species for a while.

Here's the criteria:
- Must not only speak basic, but must not look stupid using the already-recorded voices in the game.
Even if a Trandoshan can speak Basic, he's not going to sound like ANY of the voices recorded so far. BW are not going to re-record hundreds of hours of voice work for one species.
- Must use a standard character skeleton
Ithorians would look awkward on the standard skeleton. Any species with proportions different to the standard human would be time consuming and difficult to implement. Not going to happen any time soon
- Must be able to use existing armor
Itkotchi and Devaronian could MAYBE get away with it here, since like the Twi'Lek their horns can protrude out of helmets. But Wookiees? No. Duros? No. Mon Cal? No. Togruta seems unlikely to be easy.
- Must make sense as ALL classes
BW are only going to release species that can play as all classes - at least for now. Case in point: No Jawa Jedi. No droid Sith. Just... no.
- Romance
As much as I love Kel Dor, if they can't kiss they won't make it. Romance has become an important part of the story for so many, but if you think Plo Koon kissing Kira Carsen might look stupid, I think you're right.

You'll notice that Cathar meets all of these criteria.
My personal choices that meet these criteria are Zeltron and Falleen.
Others that meet criteria are other near-human species like Arkanians, Kiffar etc.

I'd like more companions in future updates that are consisted of the more exotic races. A Nautolan second apprentice for Jedi Knight? Perfect!

BioWare is a business. You can't volunteer your time to make models for them because of licensing and contracting terms. You can't expect all races to be made playable. Don't berate BW devs for prioritising what the majority of people want instead of what a singular few want. I plan on playing this game for years - I'm willing to be patient.

FontusSW's Avatar


FontusSW
01.19.2013 , 06:45 PM | #182
Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.
I just wanted to mention two suggestions or, rather two races that could be an "easy" or exception to the rule.
By no means am i a game developer, and i know everyone has an easy fix.
However, what about a wookie race and a droid race?
Races like these for the most part don't need to have any additional customization after initial creation.
And not to speak for everyone, but i think many would agree.
If it was noted when creating them, that they are what they are when you make them, people would be happy with that. I could see down the line if you add in a "barbershop" you could change droid "Heads" or body types, but aside from that i would be happy to see some variety to all the human-esk players around me. I think their is a decent pool of species, that you can start to consider pulling from that aside from initial customization people would be content with for a long while.

Also, as far as we will most likely only have English speaking races kinda bothers me.
Far as i can tell when we are doing quests and story its on our own end, and if a player wants to sit and listen to that let them, that would be their decision when they make a character, if you don't want to hear mumbo-jumbo and growling gorillas then make a human race. Let the player decide. Jeez.

kirorx's Avatar


kirorx
01.19.2013 , 07:04 PM | #183
What ever they want to say about impementation is ridiculous. How much effort really went into the species we have now; for cryin out loud we have cyborg and the blind ones. That is not much work on those two species.

The following species could be created with out changing the body at all. Simple head change and all of these speak basic.
-------------------------
Sullustan (there is a basic speaking NPC on Taris and now one in clone wars cartoon)
Cerean http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cerean
Devaronian
Voss
Wee-quay
Bith (Pretty certain that Darth Tenabris spoke basic)
Nautolan http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nautolan
Torguta (despite what they say about cliping, if Ashara can be used then it can be done)
Charian http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chagrian

---------------------------------
Watch the Clowder of Cather in this video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7uTcYvoEbU

LogicalPremise's Avatar


LogicalPremise
01.19.2013 , 07:29 PM | #184
Quote: Originally Posted by Sage View Post
Why are people being so ridiculously unrealistic? BW are not going to reinvent their playable species list without incentive. So, if you eventually want Kel Dor, Togruta, Nautolan etc. (I know I do) then we have to put up with some closer-to-human species for a while.

Here's the criteria:
- Must not only speak basic, but must not look stupid using the already-recorded voices in the game.
Even if a Trandoshan can speak Basic, he's not going to sound like ANY of the voices recorded so far. BW are not going to re-record hundreds of hours of voice work for one species.
- Must use a standard character skeleton
Ithorians would look awkward on the standard skeleton. Any species with proportions different to the standard human would be time consuming and difficult to implement. Not going to happen any time soon
- Must be able to use existing armor
Itkotchi and Devaronian could MAYBE get away with it here, since like the Twi'Lek their horns can protrude out of helmets. But Wookiees? No. Duros? No. Mon Cal? No. Togruta seems unlikely to be easy.
- Must make sense as ALL classes
BW are only going to release species that can play as all classes - at least for now. Case in point: No Jawa Jedi. No droid Sith. Just... no.
- Romance
As much as I love Kel Dor, if they can't kiss they won't make it. Romance has become an important part of the story for so many, but if you think Plo Koon kissing Kira Carsen might look stupid, I think you're right.

You'll notice that Cathar meets all of these criteria.
My personal choices that meet these criteria are Zeltron and Falleen.
Others that meet criteria are other near-human species like Arkanians, Kiffar etc.

I'd like more companions in future updates that are consisted of the more exotic races. A Nautolan second apprentice for Jedi Knight? Perfect!

BioWare is a business. You can't volunteer your time to make models for them because of licensing and contracting terms. You can't expect all races to be made playable. Don't berate BW devs for prioritising what the majority of people want instead of what a singular few want. I plan on playing this game for years - I'm willing to be patient.
A very eminently logical post. People will ignore it, insult you for stating the facts, or bring up points that make no sense.

I'm tempted to list out why the various specious counter-arguments brought up make no sense, but it's hardly worth the effort. What this thread has shown us is that when BW makes the attempt to be transparent and clearly explain their reasoning, logic, and the reasons behind a decision, people still aren't happy.

I'm hardly a BW fan , as anyone can see from my posts -- but this is ridiculous. The person a few posts back who decided to launch a screaming invective against the Devs should have his forum account deleted because they are in no way contributing to the contribution.
Majynn - 55 Sith Sorcerer - The Society
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bahdasz's Avatar


bahdasz
01.19.2013 , 08:29 PM | #185
My only two criteria...
can wear existing armor and have it all visible
can speak basic. I agree with the dev team, and I'm sure I would want to stick my face in a fan after about half an hour of "arlgkle bwarlkdarklgel mgglekkes farkelschnarkel" over and over and over again. I hate companions that don't speak basic, tbh.

My choices:
Rodian (yes, they can speak basic if they choose)
Duros

Aelther's Avatar


Aelther
01.19.2013 , 08:56 PM | #186
Kel Dor and Kel Dor

Quote: Originally Posted by Sage View Post
As much as I love Kel Dor, if they can't kiss they won't make it. Romance has become an important part of the story for so many, but if you think Plo Koon kissing Kira Carsen might look stupid, I think you're right.
Who cares about romances. I want a playable Kel Dor NOW! And jedi should not be romancing in the first place. Just disable romances for them or make any human reject you and it will be fine.

publicenemies's Avatar


publicenemies
01.19.2013 , 09:17 PM | #187
In the business world its a very bad thing to tell your customer "its costs to much" it makes your product look bad and it makes me your customer think your bieng cheap.

Heres my question why wasnt any of this considered in beta when i gave feedback about wookies and alien races? Your going about it cost to much again well weve lost 1 million people and counting weve lost a whole niche market for tor by people who like to play wookies and other alien races like they did in swg "because it cost to much" The cathar just looks like a person from the broadway musical cats lol. Its just once again repainting a human.

If you havent noticed damion there isnt any real unique races in tor. The chiss is just a human painted blue, sith pureblood are red humans and so on and so on. Your talking about giving us a level of customization when we dont have that even know its very poor

Overall what i hear is b/c of voice over and cut scenes we cant have "REAL" alien races i.e wookies rodians non human skin models and b/c this isnt tiger woods EA isnt willing to invest time and money into a worthwhile investment and would honestly bring back players into the game that were run off from the get go by tor b/c of voice overs/cut scenes

If you want to make money you have to invest it focusing on the store and legacy is not going to do that wookies, rodians REAL uniquie aliens will. I honestly believe if it werent for voiceovers we would have had a bigger selection of races and wookies. Voice overs isnt everything /shakes head




Quote: Originally Posted by DamionSchubert View Post
Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.

The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)

I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well.

Altyrell's Avatar


Altyrell
01.19.2013 , 09:22 PM | #188
@Sage why no Duros?

kirorx's Avatar


kirorx
01.19.2013 , 11:07 PM | #189
So i put the following in a post about RP. I decided share it here as well.

The question was asked about storytelling system in SWG.

At this point i want stuff other than humans, and i would not mind seeing something like the following impelmented.


WARNING: THE FOLLOWING REFERS TO ""SWG""
__________________________________________________ _________


Storyteller in SWG brought my absolute favorite element, COSTUMES

I collected the heck out of them.

Basically you could load a holo-costume that would turn your character into a generic character.

They could not be used in combat (you would just turn back to normal) but some had Emotes.

So here is a list of the costumes i had and could turn into in SWG when ever i got tired of being a Sullustan.

JAWA
HUTT
RANCOR
WOMPA
GUNGAN (oddly spent alot of time in that one following people around Mos Eisley, lol)
Gamorrean Guard
Geonosian
Chiss
Dark Trooper
Exar Kun Cultist
A burning Ewok (some weird stuff came out)
An IG-88 Style Droid
MYNOCK (Thats right the litte insect/bats from empire, this costume was awesome because i could fly so i used it for travel)

I Also got epic heros -----------They are good for role play, since you could create your own quests, but even better for screen shots lol---

Boba Fett
Han Solo
Luke
Lando
Darth Vader.

No short Supply in SWG on options to play different species. Collecting them was half the fun of them being available.

------------------------------------------

Something as simple as a costume system could at least give us some alien species, I also suggested aliens heads that work as helmets and go in the helmet slot.

The current kids game, clone wars adventures apparently has a similar holo-costume system.
Watch the Clowder of Cather in this video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j7uTcYvoEbU

Vitas's Avatar


Vitas
01.19.2013 , 11:34 PM | #190
Quote: Originally Posted by Aelther View Post
Kel Dor and Kel Dor



Who cares about romances. I want a playable Kel Dor NOW! And jedi should not be romancing in the first place. Just disable romances for them or make any human reject you and it will be fine.
Clearly this seems to be a possibility that many tend to look over. I mean you want to play as a Kel Dor but you're worried it may affect the relationships? Simply restrict who they can romance, either very few or none at all. Problem solved.
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then head to this thread and discuss, list and vote which you'd like to see and explore in the game: