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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

PerinnAybara's Avatar


PerinnAybara
01.18.2013 , 08:46 AM | #791
What’s the biggest challenge you have to face in your role?

Receiving feedback from players, by far. When you’ve got players on both sides of a combat, one of them will win and one of t"hem will lose, and no one likes losing. This can lead to emotional feedback, and we have to try to look at that feedback and get through any emotionally-driven comments to find what’s at the core of the issue. Even beyond that, almost every change we make will make some players happy and some players unhappy. We have to gauge the health of the game versus the health and happiness of our player base for almost every single change we make, no matter how minor it may be."

I am glad you are so cautious. However, without much emotion, many players already agree on the Mercenary situation. The health of the game would really benefit to some adjustments for Mercenaries.

Also I would like to meet the pvp Developer who plays Mercenaries as a main.
Character: Mathrim Cauthon, 50 Mercenary on Prophecy of the Five

T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
01.18.2013 , 09:07 AM | #792
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
9/10 melee opponents interrupt w/e they see first. baiting w/ power shot is pretty easy, and then you can stand their and face tank for 3 tracer missiles -> kb -> unload -> hsm and rs. at that point theyre probably dead. arsenal/gunnery is so poorly designed that its full rotation is usually longer than TTK. tracers crit for ~3k, unload can crit for close to 10k. thats 19k damage right there, and is really only 50% of your rotation.
^^^

you can get away with that on n00bs...which there are a ton of smash monkeys, which wasn't always the case. they were few and far between, "back in the day", and the good ones really, really stood out.

i've tried Arse, once, for 2 days. i know, i'm definitely NOT speaking as an expert of the spec, pyro, yes.

and maybe that was my problem. the face tanking. i couldn't do it!! i'm Ben Franklin (or his son, if u watch drunk history :P ) at kiting.

as Arse, when TM was interrupted, i was boned. again, no expert, but it seemed most skilled SW/JK just ate thru me.

my belief is any class that has to stand still and cast (and can be jumped to and interrupted) is already behind the 8-ball to players that understand others' class mechanics and know what to interrupt, and when.

and if they have multiple interrupts...well, that's just simple math.

that's what separates all these posts from fact vs. opinion to WZ vs. RWZ. s**t is real in RWZ, son!!

skilled player vs. skilled player, Merc doesn't have the tools, or perhaps has the tools, just not the right means to deliver them.
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.18.2013 , 10:40 AM | #793
Quote: Originally Posted by T-Assassin View Post

do you think it is hate, or lack of understanding why the class is underperforming? or perhaps, they have no idea how to balance the class without fear of making it completely OP.

i think even the most basic PvP'r knows, keep moving if you want to live. the exception being sniper/gs, due to the mechaincs of the class. uniterruptable, cannot jump to, excellent CC/KB/root.

there was even a cheesy computer gaming design commercial on for years, the closing was "and we all know what happens when you stand still" (paraphrased) to which the screen blinked out, meant to simulate death.

yet these designers continue to ignore the gross imbalance between casting classes and instant/uniterruptable classes. this pertains to both PvE and PvP...PvP moreso.

*EDIT* still irrelevant to me, since i cannot PvP from 5pm-12am CST, due to being on a west coast server
Things like the stockstrike root lead me to believe that they simply don't understand the problems with the class at all. When we asked for a root on stockstrike we meant for it to be that in ADDITION to being a knockback.

Gunnery is a complete mess in PVP. You'll never make it truly viable as long as grav round can be interrupted. The whole spec depends on it too much. Plus, as someone said, with the boost to Demo Round being a debuff on the target it's lackluster burst (and it IS lackluster guys) is only compounded by the fact that you'll probably never get a full set of vortexes on the target because it will be dead. It's a beautiful PVE spec for simplicity and carving up operations bosses, but it's just horrible in PVP. Assault isn't much better though in all honesty. You can pump up numbers Tab Dotting, but you leave too much on the floor eliminating charged bolts from your rotation, and you don't have a good interrupt baiter in this spec either.

Bioware's opinion that all we need is a better escape and we can be "quite hard to kill" by pillar humping also shows that they just have no freaking clue. Even if we could get our damage out uninterrupted it won't make us ranked viable. Other classes can get out uninterrupted damage too. They can get out just as much, and some of them can get out a lot more in a big burst, and that's what matters in PVP. But other classes also have serious team utility that Commando lacks because BW is full of idiots who felt that heals were such a big utility that at one point they considered giving us an interrupt to be going too far. But they forgot that they deliberately made offheals non-viable without speccing into them to at least some extent.

At this point they probably look at the changes that are clearly needed and think it's either too much work or that that level of changes would make us OP, because they don't understand that we are so UP in the current metagame that changes that would instantly raise Sage to the undisputed king of PVP would only make commando finally ranked viable.

Fix your game BW.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Tiaa's Avatar


Tiaa
01.18.2013 , 11:53 AM | #794
The commando class is broken PvP wise and is really not worth playing other than PvE.

People are stressing themselves out waiting for Bioware to make changes but...

Don't hold your breath is all I will say.

I am just hoping that ONE day this game gets shut down and a REAL developer makes a REAL Star Wars game.

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
01.18.2013 , 01:13 PM | #795
Quote: Originally Posted by Tiaa View Post
The commando class is broken PvP wise and is really not worth playing other than PvE.

People are stressing themselves out waiting for Bioware to make changes but...

Don't hold your breath is all I will say.

I am just hoping that ONE day this game gets shut down and a REAL developer makes a REAL Star Wars game.
2 relative flops in the terms of expectations of Star Wars MMOs. I wouldn't hold my breath for another attempt.

Azrienov's Avatar


Azrienov
01.18.2013 , 01:43 PM | #796
This thread is pretty old, and yet... we've seen one employee say anything. We're coming up on the anniversary of them crippling dps PvP mercs. I wonder what nerfs will be in store for us in 1.7

Bluntron's Avatar


Bluntron
01.18.2013 , 02:21 PM | #797
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
9/10 melee opponents interrupt w/e they see first. baiting w/ power shot is pretty easy, and then you can stand their and face tank for 3 tracer missiles -> kb -> unload -> hsm and rs. at that point theyre probably dead. arsenal/gunnery is so poorly designed that its full rotation is usually longer than TTK. tracers crit for ~3k, unload can crit for close to 10k. thats 19k damage right there, and is really only 50% of your rotation.
10k unloads huh? I guess we shouldn't really cry about our dmg, form what I know thats hardest hitting move in the game, not even smashes hit for 10k. But I wouldnt know all I have is my Merc atm. So its all I do.

I was wondering what would be better Unloard, RS, or HSM after the tracers.
Do you guys nornally Unload if it procs before the 3 tracers? Because I normally proc an unload right after my first tracer. I never played it so I am just going off common sense of compacting as much dmg as possible in a small time frame. So I try to fit in as many unloads as possible

Bluntron's Avatar


Bluntron
01.18.2013 , 02:28 PM | #798
Quote: Originally Posted by T-Assassin View Post
^^^

you can get away with that on n00bs...which there are a ton of smash monkeys, which wasn't always the case. they were few and far between, "back in the day", and the good ones really, really stood out.

i've tried Arse, once, for 2 days. i know, i'm definitely NOT speaking as an expert of the spec, pyro, yes.

and maybe that was my problem. the face tanking. i couldn't do it!! i'm Ben Franklin (or his son, if u watch drunk history :P ) at kiting.

as Arse, when TM was interrupted, i was boned. again, no expert, but it seemed most skilled SW/JK just ate thru me.

my belief is any class that has to stand still and cast (and can be jumped to and interrupted) is already behind the 8-ball to players that understand others' class mechanics and know what to interrupt, and when.

and if they have multiple interrupts...well, that's just simple math.

that's what separates all these posts from fact vs. opinion to WZ vs. RWZ. s**t is real in RWZ, son!!

skilled player vs. skilled player, Merc doesn't have the tools, or perhaps has the tools, just not the right means to deliver them.
The only way I found to kite with ARS that is decent enough is trade tracer with MB, And you only Tracer when they get close enough to RP them and apply the root, kb them fits in another tracer or unload. Pretty much you PS a FM, ED, RS and HSM at the same time ED goes off. Its do able and works best on ops/smug dps, just keep RP and KB on CD for them and Sins/Shades and you do a good enough job. Most times you can lower their health to a point the player starts to panic and slip up, making them second guess their rotation.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
01.18.2013 , 02:28 PM | #799
Quote: Originally Posted by Bluntron View Post
10k unloads huh? I guess we shouldn't really cry about our dmg, form what I know thats hardest hitting move in the game, not even smashes hit for 10k. But I wouldnt know all I have is my Merc atm. So its all I do.

I was wondering what would be better Unloard, RS, or HSM after the tracers.
Do you guys nornally Unload if it procs before the 3 tracers? Because I normally proc an unload right after my first tracer. I never played it so I am just going off common sense of compacting as much dmg as possible in a small time frame. So I try to fit in as many unloads as possible
when i play arsenal i usually wait for the full 5 stack. your base 65% armor pen on Unload, plus reducing your opponents armor by a further 20%. cant go wrong their.

and yeah, when i crit with unload its ~3-3.5k. i think ive had it happen 3 times where all 3 ticks were crits. needless to say the target melted. definitely one of the highest damage potential abilities in the game, but it is woefully vulnerable to being interrupted.

ps. you should avoid using Missile Blast as much as possible. 25 heat for 1.5k damage is just bad. the only time i will use it is if the target has ~1-2k health left and i am on the run

Bluntron's Avatar


Bluntron
01.18.2013 , 02:32 PM | #800
Normally when i get interrupted as ARS, or Pyro, that just gives me a window to heal myself.....and with my karma wont crit for 5k.....lol