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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Samy_Merchi's Avatar


Samy_Merchi
01.18.2013 , 08:23 AM | #5431
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
There was nothing wrong with how it was worded. It was a figurative statement. Metaphorical, if you will.
Thank you for understanding the meaning behind it instead of nitpicking about literal interpretations.
In order to have romance in this game, I am forced to either crossdress or change my sexual orientation. Nice. Thanks "Bioware".

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.18.2013 , 09:37 AM | #5432
Quote: Originally Posted by Revanchis View Post
It makes a significant portion of TOR. It may not be as good as a proper RPG, but without it I doubt I would have even tried this game. I had a fervent dislike of MMOs.
Then you are a rarity among MMO players. As most wouldn't stay just for the storyline, especially one section that's 10minutes in length. Though admittedly, I don't know how that account for the majority of TOR, or do you mean just for you, it's a significant portion of TOR?

Revanchis's Avatar


Revanchis
01.18.2013 , 10:44 AM | #5433
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Then you are a rarity among MMO players. As most wouldn't stay just for the storyline, especially one section that's 10minutes in length. Though admittedly, I don't know how that account for the majority of TOR, or do you mean just for you, it's a significant portion of TOR?
I mean the story portion to the game and the narrative in general make a significant portion of the game, not just the romances. If it didn't have the draw of Bioware storytelling it wouldn't be nearly as popular. While I can't speak for everyone I can say that I wouldn't have even considered the game if it weren't a KotOR sequel developed by Bioware. The fact that it was an MMO kept me out of the game for a while, but eventually I did play and enjoy.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.18.2013 , 12:20 PM | #5434
Quote: Originally Posted by Revanchis View Post
I mean the story portion to the game and the narrative in general make a significant portion of the game, not just the romances. If it didn't have the draw of Bioware storytelling it wouldn't be nearly as popular. While I can't speak for everyone I can say that I wouldn't have even considered the game if it weren't a KotOR sequel developed by Bioware. The fact that it was an MMO kept me out of the game for a while, but eventually I did play and enjoy.
Story was often referred to as the "fourth pillar" of ToR and its existence was designed to help set this MMO apart from others.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
01.18.2013 , 01:54 PM | #5435
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Well, first "Tch just do X" is not a male only thing
/facepalm #3 Yeah, I know...I'm using a common trope to make a point. I was going to add in the anecdote that it's the complete opposite with me and my dad, but I thought you'd just get the humor and move on rather than turn it into yet another argument. You kind of remind me on the internet 15 years ago.

Quote:
Second, I tend to say they're broad fromt he start and that of course there are the minor exceptions. Third, tact wasn't an option. When I as a player may want something, I realize the business should do what's in it's best interrests in terms of profitablity, as this keeps the product going that I want to see going, and a profitable business also keeps a staff employed (generally...one can look at City of Heroes and see that profitability can still lead to layoffs), and not in doing what I may want, that could possibly be what only a minority of players want/can careless about in either direction.
.... not even sure how this relates to my comment. Either this is a reply to something else or you misunderstood me.

Quote:
Also, I don't see much tact in going outside the forums to start a campaign. I don't see much tact in saying "BW who's made SGR in other games is now discriminatory against RL SGR"
Neither do I, which is why I never said anything like that. Again, not sure why include this in your reply to my post which had nothing to do with any of this. I think you have me confused with someone else in a conversation I wasn't part of.

Quote:
While I don't think adding SGR will do this, let me ask you this...

Would you prefere SGR options where added even if it was shown it would cause the game to be shut down in two months? Or would you prefere it stayed out if that was shown what would happen?

Cause I promise you, this is exactly the type of things those who run companies think about. How will this effect long term.
Why even ask a question that even you don't think has any truth to it? If Bioware really thought this would hurt their game, they wouldn't do it. Nobody has more information and feedback from their audience then they do.
Every move they make is a being evaluated by their internal metrics and number crunchers. Despite all the fanfare, I really don't think Bioware/EA caves to pressure to a few people on these forums. They made a decision to include SGR pre-launch. They started working on Makeb last spring, and I would be willing to bet they had the timeline of when they were going to announce certain features set up many months ago (in spite of Gabe's and Hall's accidental early spill).

And I work nights and weekends
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
01.18.2013 , 06:11 PM | #5436
Thanks to EA's decision to make SGRs P2G, and not even giving us names for who will be SGR compatible, I've cancelled my sub. I may finish the Consular storyline eventually.... maybe. Done all the others. Did PvP. Did Flashpoints and Raids. BTDTGTTS (Been There Done That Got The T-Shirt).

Anyhow, I'm going to be taking a huge break from SWTOR to focus on writing when not at work, and probably play some more EVE Online. If anyone wants to check out my writing, I've been writing a multi-chapter story on another website that takes place just prior to the events of TOR's Prologue chapter. It stars characters of my own making named Joran Karn, a Jedi Knight, and Lord Shivalka, a Sith Warrior. They're partnered to take down Darth Tormen, and they have some very strange allies with them starting with Chapter 7. The series is called "Knight & Warrior", but I can't tell you the name of the website, here. Suffice it to say that if anyone is interested, send me a PM and I'll send you the website address and my user name on it so you can look up my tales. PM's here go straight to my email, so I'll be able to respond.

My decision to cancel my sub is due to EA being shady again, not because of BioWare. I am still a BioWare fan, so don't get me wrong. EA, on the other hand, has proven themselves to be unchanged since Earth & Beyond. Still the shadiest publisher around.

So I hope to see you all again sometime. Free Horizons, and Fly Safe. o7
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

SirGladiator's Avatar


SirGladiator
01.18.2013 , 07:29 PM | #5437
I too am someone who generally dislikes MMOs, I think thats a large part of the appeal of SWTOR, it is an MMO that plays like a single player RPG. Kind've like how the original KOTOR, WAY back in the day, was a traditional RPG that played like an action RPG. You appeal to a much wider range of people that way, and its still super fun. Clearly SWTOR has those MMO elements, the group quests, the PvP, stuff like that, and they are likely as much or more fun than any other MMO as well, but the primary draw for me, and probably a majority of players, is the storyline. Obviously that includes the romances, which is why there are 20 of them in the game, and while I've never heard a number on the total number of flirts its probably well over a thousand, and that might be an understatement. The fact that we aren't allowed to enjoy ANY of them is simply mind-boggling, and its why most players are upset. That, and the fact that its so easy to turn off the gender checks and solve the issue, but they pretend its 'unexpectedly hard', so hard that its taken them well over a year and theres still no end in sight to the waiting.

As someone who is, unfortunately, an expert on this topic due to years and years of experience using mods to enjoy romances that are gender-checked away, there is literally never a romance that needs to be rewritten or changed in any meaningful way whatosever because the main character is really a female. Whether its the Bastilla and Female Revan, Morrigan and Female Warden, FemShep and Ashley, Jack, Miranda, Tali, I've literally played them all, and many more. The only one that is at all annoying is the Morrigan one, because of the unusual number of male pronouns in that one, but even that one is awesome (particularly if you have the Morrigan DLC, and get the happy ending, with Morrigan and the Female Warden going through the mirror to raise their child and have their happily ever after) . And the reason that one of the very first mods that came out for DAO was the mod that let you romance Morrigan as a female Warden is, in addition to the fact that it was one of the most wanted, it was also because it was one of the easiest to do. It is just SOOOO easy to get rid of that gender check and let everybody enjoy the romance, it isn't 'unexpectedly hard', it doesn't take years, it took about 2 days for a modder, a guy who isn't even a professional getting paid to do it, to put the Morrigan one out there, and it might not've taken him that long to actually do it, it might've just taken him that long to do it, figure out where to upload it, etc. Thats the key point behind all of this, how easy it is to do if they would just do it, instead of pretending its hard and making excuses while doing nothing.

Of course it would be much harder if they wanted to write the romance storylines completely differently depending on which gender you were, but that is not only completely unnecessary, quite frankly its downright absurd. The romance is the romance, gender doesnt really play a role, once you'd played enough of these romances via mods you realize that isn't even slightly an issue. Of course it would be nice if they threw in a line about your character's gender at some point, that's always nice in any storyline in the game, and certainly it would be particularly appropriate for the romance storylines, but that's something they could add in later if they wanted to, thats not an excuse to give us absolutely nothing for well over a year. They could make the romances available right now, and if they want to add gender-specific aspects to them down the line that'd be great, and they'd obviously be able to do that as well, whenever they liked. So hopefully they'll finally do that soon.

darthlevantine's Avatar


darthlevantine
01.18.2013 , 09:27 PM | #5438
Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
I too am someone who generally dislikes MMOs, I think thats a large part of the appeal of SWTOR, it is an MMO that plays like a single player RPG. Kind've like how the original KOTOR, WAY back in the day, was a traditional RPG that played like an action RPG. You appeal to a much wider range of people that way, and its still super fun. Clearly SWTOR has those MMO elements, the group quests, the PvP, stuff like that, and they are likely as much or more fun than any other MMO as well, but the primary draw for me, and probably a majority of players, is the storyline. Obviously that includes the romances, which is why there are 20 of them in the game, and while I've never heard a number on the total number of flirts its probably well over a thousand, and that might be an understatement. The fact that we aren't allowed to enjoy ANY of them is simply mind-boggling, and its why most players are upset. That, and the fact that its so easy to turn off the gender checks and solve the issue, but they pretend its 'unexpectedly hard', so hard that its taken them well over a year and theres still no end in sight to the waiting.

As someone who is, unfortunately, an expert on this topic due to years and years of experience using mods to enjoy romances that are gender-checked away, there is literally never a romance that needs to be rewritten or changed in any meaningful way whatosever because the main character is really a female. Whether its the Bastilla and Female Revan, Morrigan and Female Warden, FemShep and Ashley, Jack, Miranda, Tali, I've literally played them all, and many more. The only one that is at all annoying is the Morrigan one, because of the unusual number of male pronouns in that one, but even that one is awesome (particularly if you have the Morrigan DLC, and get the happy ending, with Morrigan and the Female Warden going through the mirror to raise their child and have their happily ever after) . And the reason that one of the very first mods that came out for DAO was the mod that let you romance Morrigan as a female Warden is, in addition to the fact that it was one of the most wanted, it was also because it was one of the easiest to do. It is just SOOOO easy to get rid of that gender check and let everybody enjoy the romance, it isn't 'unexpectedly hard', it doesn't take years, it took about 2 days for a modder, a guy who isn't even a professional getting paid to do it, to put the Morrigan one out there, and it might not've taken him that long to actually do it, it might've just taken him that long to do it, figure out where to upload it, etc. Thats the key point behind all of this, how easy it is to do if they would just do it, instead of pretending its hard and making excuses while doing nothing.

Of course it would be much harder if they wanted to write the romance storylines completely differently depending on which gender you were, but that is not only completely unnecessary, quite frankly its downright absurd. The romance is the romance, gender doesnt really play a role, once you'd played enough of these romances via mods you realize that isn't even slightly an issue. Of course it would be nice if they threw in a line about your character's gender at some point, that's always nice in any storyline in the game, and certainly it would be particularly appropriate for the romance storylines, but that's something they could add in later if they wanted to, thats not an excuse to give us absolutely nothing for well over a year. They could make the romances available right now, and if they want to add gender-specific aspects to them down the line that'd be great, and they'd obviously be able to do that as well, whenever they liked. So hopefully they'll finally do that soon.
I have to agree with what you said here. I dunno why its really all that hard to do. How often does your companion even talk about you to others? They are talking directly to you on the ship or the cantina mostly, not about you to others. I'm sure there are a few strings of dialogue here and there that aren't 100% gender neutral but jeez, can't be that many. Granted there ARE a buncha companions to go through but still..

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
01.18.2013 , 10:04 PM | #5439
Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
I too am someone who generally dislikes MMOs, I think thats a large part of the appeal of SWTOR, it is an MMO that plays like a single player RPG.

<snip>

They could make the romances available right now, and if they want to add gender-specific aspects to them down the line that'd be great, and they'd obviously be able to do that as well, whenever they liked. So hopefully they'll finally do that soon.
Snipped for length. It was a good post with a number of salient points.

Unfortunately at the Guild Summit in March 2012 the only thing they were emphatically clear on regarding SGRAs is that they were consciously choosing to avoid doing exactly what you've suggested. They've chosen to make more in-depth changes to the romance arcs in order to make them SGRA-capable so no matter how easy it could be with a few gender flag alterations and a handful of rephrased lines they're not going to do that.

As we've seen BW:A don't do stuff they've chosen not to do (a trait that can be both positive and negative) so for all of their statements regarding how difficult or expensive it's proving to implement SGRAs I think they need to be taken with a grain of salt and an implied addendum of 'the way we've chosen to implement them'.
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

Royox's Avatar


Royox
01.19.2013 , 10:52 AM | #5440
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Thanks to EA's decision to make SGRs P2G, and not even giving us names for who will be SGR compatible, I've cancelled my sub. I may finish the Consular storyline eventually.... maybe. Done all the others. Did PvP. Did Flashpoints and Raids. BTDTGTTS (Been There Done That Got The T-Shirt).
We have names....

SGR
Random male NPC 1 on Makeb
Random male NPC 2 on Makeb
Random female NPC 1 on Makeb
Random female NPC 2 on Makeb


OGR
Random male NPC 1 on Makeb
Random male NPC 2 on Makeb
Random female NPC 1 on Makeb
Random female NPC 2 on Makeb


None of the current companion will be SGR when Makeb goes out.