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EC : 16M-NiM (world ranking)


Nibbon's Avatar


Nibbon
01.17.2013 , 11:48 PM | #301
Quote: Originally Posted by Krewel View Post
Given the dynamic changes of content (such as the simple fact that increasing the enrage timer on Kephess substantially lowers the overall difficulty) and the fact that Kephess is the most difficult encounter on NiM by far (equating that fight to Vorgath is nonsensical in itself) this static mathematical calculation makes this ranking system nothing but pointless pastime. Raiding does not take place in a mathematical vacuum, especially in the inexperienced realm of SWTOR.

Whichever guild killed Kephess on 16m first is the best, that's the only ranking that should be obvious to anyone whose logic is not limited to static calculations at the level of primary school.
I'm glad we agree that this is nothing but a stupid pasttime to keep rankings. I will repeat the notion that if someone chooses to say that rankings are purely based off the order in which the guilds completed a full clear - they are welcome to do that - and my tracking system will provide that information to them. You are perfectly allowed to have your own opinion.

My only point is that we determined the two ranking systems that I keep track of prior to the content being released. It would be unfair of me to go back and change the way those ranking systems worked now.

On a separate note, I would like to point out that the two systems I track were to account for the former complaints on the HM TFB runs. One is weighted to the latter kills and the other is not. The controversy here is that Ace took their time getting started , but went through the content very quickly. FF got a really fast start, but took their time to finish off kephess (and I talk to them and know why that was; they are a very good guild, they essentially took a long break).

I honestly believe both Ace and FF are deserving of being ranked #1. These are merely tracking systems, how you decide to interpret the data is up to you.

Xelereth's Avatar


Xelereth
01.18.2013 , 05:13 AM | #302
Whatever Krewel says about FriendlyFire is personal, so most of his arguments are invalid.
Zaer - Varzek - Zelereth - Laelani - Davassi
Xelereth - Vharzek - Laeoni

Tomb of Freedon Nadd

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
01.18.2013 , 06:45 AM | #303
Quote: Originally Posted by Xelereth View Post
Whatever Krewel says about FriendlyFire is personal, so most of his arguments are invalid.
The only thing that's invalid here is the ranking system that equates Vorgath with Kephess (the very idea is an abomination), doesn't take into account two major nerfs to both Tanks and Kephess, and doesn't know racing 101, meaning whoever crosses the finish line first wins (a simple logic known to any 10-year old). If you had actually bothered to read what I wrote you would see my issue with the whole "structure" of this questionable system ... so, who's being personal now? And besides, it was Elidhu himself who raged about Kephess and the whole world first race being entirely irrelevant after the nerf (didn't he say he was going to quit until the expansion?) - check your own shoutbox from time to time.

Xelereth's Avatar


Xelereth
01.18.2013 , 06:57 AM | #304
Quote: Originally Posted by Krewel View Post
The only thing that's invalid here is the ranking system that equates Vorgath with Kephess (the very idea is an abomination), doesn't take into account two major nerfs to both Tanks and Kephess, and doesn't know racing 101, meaning whoever crosses the finish line first wins (a simple logic known to any 10-year old). If you had actually bothered to read what I wrote you would see my issue with the whole "structure" of this questionable system ... so, who's being personal now? And besides, it was Elidhu himself who raged about Kephess and the whole world first race being entirely irrelevant after the nerf (didn't he say he was going to quit until the expansion?) - check your own shoutbox from time to time.
Finish the operation the quickest isnt always the best way to show on whos the "best" guild. When we had our best 16 people online, we took 3 world firsts. After that people started to leave and we basically had to build a new team with new people before we could finish off Kephess, and now when we had a proper team we, i would say, easily killed him. With the team we had i think we would have killed him before the nerf too. But i give huge props to Ace for having all 16 people with enough dedication to kill it, which clearly we didnt have.
Zaer - Varzek - Zelereth - Laelani - Davassi
Xelereth - Vharzek - Laeoni

Tomb of Freedon Nadd

Garell's Avatar


Garell
01.18.2013 , 08:41 AM | #305
I agree, the area that Ace exceeds in and should be massively praised for is the ability to continuously occupy a 16-man raid team throughout progress.

Ace deserved world first because they were the only competative guild strong enough to keep attendance high throughout.

The hardest part about all of EC NiM was trying to maintain attendance enough to raid 16-man. I wouldn't be wrong if i said that we(FriendlyFire) had to cancel or downsize about 75% of our raids since the content was released.

We are in the process of strengthening our numbers and stockpiling for the new content, whenever it may be. We won't be making the same shortcomings with attendance that we did this time around.

I urge all 16-man guilds to do the same. Don't give up and drop to 8-man. Put in the extra effort to recruit on your appropriate servers and keep the 16-man progress race a worthwhile challenge.

As stated above, ranking systems cannot please everyone. The challenge will be to dominate the race from all aspects without contestation.

FriendlyFire will be ready....will you?

Haargh's Avatar


Haargh
01.18.2013 , 09:04 AM | #306
1. This whole topic is a storm in a puddle, as only 15-20 guilds doing 16 men raids Worldwide. Bioware should cancel alltogether the whole 16 men raiding. There isnt enough player to support 16 men raiding, not with the current player numbers.
2. Theres only 1 guild killed Kephess prenerf, so why is there a debate at all whos the world first in this irrelevant contest? The other 3 boss is a joke, comparing them, even mathematically, to Kephess is a joke.

Gratz for FF for the kill guys, too bad i couldnt watch the stream last night as we were raiding that time.
The Aldous Legacy

Rhienne/Rhíenne - Sage Healer - Inconsistency
Tergorn - Scoundrel Healer - Forsaken Gamers

Garell's Avatar


Garell
01.18.2013 , 09:15 AM | #307
Bioware shouldn't have nerfed the fight at all. Storymode and Hardmode are there to view the content. Nightmare mode should be there specifically to challenge the absolute elite, without reguard to allowing the casual players to walk all over it.

Qualem's Avatar


Qualem
01.18.2013 , 09:43 AM | #308
I have to say that I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this ranking.
The way it is made makes us...stunned. Well, after all, why not ?
As for me, I will simply... ignore it.
I just want to make sure that it is not perceived as an "official" ranking, because it's not, as it's not approved by all guilds nor all players. The parameters taken into account are yours. They wouldn't necessarily be ours.

It's also a shame that Bioware has nerfed the fight.

To answer FriendlyFire's member Elidhu, we'll do everything we can to get ready =)
It's a pleasure to compete with such talented players.

Friendly,

Qualem.
Qualem - Sorcerer healer - Guilde Ace PvE HL16 Men - Darth Nihilus - www.ace-guilde.com
" Peace is a lie. There is only Passion. Through Passion, I gain Strength. Through Strength, I gain Power. Throug Power, I gain Victory. Through Victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me."

lmey's Avatar


lmey
01.18.2013 , 09:43 AM | #309
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
Shouldn't Ace get bonus points for not only doing kephess first, but also accomplishing Warstalker in 16m? something no other guild has accomplished? Just sayin...
I'm a sniper for Ace know as "Metos" IG.
I d'ont care about the warstalker or not and have a bonus point for it. Juste because Warstalker is a joke now.
Zorn & Toth is pretty easy. And, after the Tanks, the rest is a joke. Vorgath is ridiculous... and Kephess isn't so hard anymore (I will talk about it later)

This week we made kephess with a deconnection of one of our Main Tank while another had a graphic bug and can't focus nor see Kephess when he appeared, we had some casual members with us that died... but we killed him easily!!!
That's not the same fight at all... Kephess is weak now!
I mean, comparing with what he was when we killed him... now, he's a joke!

I heard the critics about our waitings during the first down... waiting for the CDs came up. That's the mecanic dudes... It was impossible before the nerf to kill Kephess without that! Just open your eyes.

I congrat all the guys that had down Kephess after us. But, its clearly not the same Kephess since he was nerfed!
We tried hard on Kephess, so much tries... he was really hard, but it's because he was hard that we fought him so intensively! Some people of ours spent hours and hours analysing this fight, trying to find the secrets and keys of this boss.
We talked for hours, nights after nights, watching our videos, the battles... where we could gain dps or time, then we tried our tricks and tips during the next night.
Searching how to kill the bomber in a better way, how to dps the Walker a maximum, how was the best things to do for every thing. We played hours and hours on Kephess before the down. But, we spent so many time too in analyzing this fight.
And all of this was streamed! Every guild could have access to our videos, could have our strats and see that we were waiting for CDs to came back up.

I think that's a lack of respect to made us 3rd.
We are the only guild that really killed Kephess... and that wasn't a stroke of luck at all, we killed him and killed him again BEFORE the nerf. Who else?
Who else was abble to kill Kephess before... who did it?
Who else can say "I cleaned EC Nightmare before 2013" ?

The weak of the apparition of EC Nightmare, the server was down till 22h for us. And we just played another night after.
Ok, we stay a lot on the tanks, our bad. But the other guilds can kill kephess 4 weeks after us... and a "nerfed" Kephess and have so much points that we become 3rd?
That's clearly a joke!
And I'd like to bring at your attention that Ace wasn't on the PTS!
Some guilds were quicker than us for Zorn & Toth, then Firebrand and Stormcalled or Vorgath too... but maybe thay had an access on PTS that we hadn't!!!
I think we could have been really quicker if we had played on PTS too...

Yes, in order to kill Kephess, we had "delayed"... but is it a cheat? NO!
Did we even tried to exploit bugs like the Dark Malgus Statue? NO!
Did we cheated or tried to? No
We used all the regular mecanics of fight... and it was clearly impossible to own Kephess without before this nerf.
All the fight was done according to the state of the art.

Make us 3rd is, in my opinion, a real joke and a huge lack of respect. Sorry to say.


I really don't want to do a lack of respect to other guilds that killed Kephess after us. Again, all my congrutaltions my friends... But we all know that Kephess isn't the same anymore and we tried so hard to kill him to see that ranking now... that's really not fair.
-= Metos - SNIPER FOR ACE - PVE HL GUILDE on Darth Nihilus =-

Rystet's Avatar


Rystet
01.18.2013 , 09:59 AM | #310
This was a couple of weeks ago, but I forgot to post.

Guild: Catalyst
Server: POT5
Boss: Zorn & Toth
Difuclty: Nightmare
Raid size: 16 man
SS: http://i.imgur.com/lbJI1.jpg
< Catalyst >
Destroying End Game content since 2005.
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