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EC : 16M-NiM (world ranking)


Donalj's Avatar


Donalj
01.17.2013 , 04:49 PM | #291
Donal - Xarea - Pasta - Wotsit - Vebbeg - Potential - Greengiant
Dólan - Hurrimarobot

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
01.17.2013 , 06:01 PM | #292
Quote: Originally Posted by Nibbon View Post
gratz all on your kills ... by both ranking systems this actually puts FF ahead of Ace despite the timing ;p

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...yeW1fQ3c#gid=0
Erm, by what logic is Ace now third? They killed Kephess 16m before nerf, even. Gratz to all, of course, but what's weird is just weird. Whoever made this ranking system needs to, well, revise it, or don't even bother with it, it's ridiculous.

Nibbon's Avatar


Nibbon
01.17.2013 , 06:19 PM | #293
Quote: Originally Posted by Krewel View Post
Erm, by what logic is Ace now third? They killed Kephess 16m before nerf, even. Gratz to all, of course, but what's weird is just weird. Whoever made this ranking system needs to, well, revise it, or don't even bother with it, it's ridiculous.
I think it is pretty obvious, but I will indulge you. The rankings are both based on overall effort, that is, how quickly you killed ALL the bosses. Ace did not kill the first 3 bosses quick enough in the rankings for the OVERALL ranking. Pretty simple ... but in any case it is just a mathematical calculation. If you want to judge the rankings purely by the kephess kill you are perfectly entitled to. These ranking systems were both determined prior to the release of this round of content, it would not make sense to now adjust them just to satisfy a specific scenario.

Hopefully that answers your question.

tahoeWolverine's Avatar


tahoeWolverine
01.17.2013 , 06:34 PM | #294
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
First off, your DPS is mad insanity. I've *never* seen a bomber die that fast on Nightmare Mode (8m or 16m). Very impressive. Your healers are also top-notch. It's extremely hard to tank heal against Kephess when he drops down, and you were doing it a healer short. Very, very well done.
We appreciate the compliments, it certainly took many attempts to get the dps focused in the right spots and the heals setup optimally. One thing about this attempt that isn't super obvious is that I (the tank that is normally tanking kephess), get the bomber debuff, essentially putting all 3 tanks into heal or die situations. I definitely credit our healers for doing what they could on the fly, even if 1 tank did die in the end.

Grats FF on your kill, let's see your wipe video!
DrGordon - Chosen - Prophecy of the Five

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
01.17.2013 , 06:43 PM | #295
Quote: Originally Posted by Nibbon View Post
I think it is pretty obvious, but I will indulge you. The rankings are both based on overall effort, that is, how quickly you killed ALL the bosses. Ace did not kill the first 3 bosses quick enough in the rankings for the OVERALL ranking. Pretty simple ... but in any case it is just a mathematical calculation. If you want to judge the rankings purely by the kephess kill you are perfectly entitled to. These ranking systems were both determined prior to the release of this round of content, it would not make sense to now adjust them just to satisfy a specific scenario.

Hopefully that answers your question.
Given the dynamic changes of content (such as the simple fact that increasing the enrage timer on Kephess substantially lowers the overall difficulty) and the fact that Kephess is the most difficult encounter on NiM by far (equating that fight to Vorgath is nonsensical in itself) this static mathematical calculation makes this ranking system nothing but pointless pastime. Raiding does not take place in a mathematical vacuum, especially in the inexperienced realm of SWTOR.

Whichever guild killed Kephess on 16m first is the best, that's the only ranking that should be obvious to anyone whose logic is not limited to static calculations at the level of primary school.

Dragonbgone's Avatar


Dragonbgone
01.17.2013 , 07:39 PM | #296
Quote: Originally Posted by Krewel View Post
. . .Raiding does not take place in a mathematical vacuum. . .
Actually, I'm pretty sure it does.

Regardless, your argument isn't very sound. I can agree with parts of it, like a static weight system doesn't work very well, but the first guild to kill the last boss is not necessarily the best.
. : Messores Republicae : .
Reapers of the Republic

Krewel's Avatar


Krewel
01.17.2013 , 07:55 PM | #297
Quote: Originally Posted by Dragonbgone View Post
Actually, I'm pretty sure it does.

Regardless, your argument isn't very sound. I can agree with parts of it, like a static weight system doesn't work very well, but the first guild to kill the last boss is not necessarily the best.
Okay, what about the first guild that kills the boss pre-nerf? You do realize there is a huge difference between Kephess having 4:30 mins enrage timer and the one having 6:00 mins, right?

Being first to get to the finish line ... yeah, that's not a sound argument for world first at all

I'd also like to hear the explanation how raiding takes place in a mathematical vacuum. Because all we need are spreadsheets and (ro)bots to down bosses, not human beings at all, right?

Rupert's Avatar


Rupert
01.17.2013 , 09:37 PM | #298
Just to chime in on the dispute that's taken place...

Kephess' pre-"nerf" enrage timer was 4:00 not 4:30 if I am correct, which is what made Ace's kill so impressive. I know that our kill was ~4:30 on kephess and it seemed slow even, though our overall kill was much faster, which brings me to my next point: any end game fight were the mechanics allow you to take a break in the middle of the encounter in order for cooldowns to come back up should not be considered complete or held in a competitive regard, despite how difficult the rest of the fight is. That coupled with the difference in 8m vs. 16m amount of kills is proof that the fight was not tuned very well for live (something that I think we all hope will be fixed in future content patches!). In addition, by your logic, Kephess would have been the only fight that mattered, which means that guilds could have cleared up to him on hard mode week after week and focused all of their raiding time solely on kephess instead of taking the time to clear the previous fights on nightmare, however difficult they may have been.

That being said, as someone previously mentioned, none of this is "official" and is simply there to promote competitiveness in a friendly manner among the community. Everyone is welcome to judge the ranking of guilds by their own rules, but you must understand that coming into a thread where someone has taken the time to clearly define the agreed upon rules and track guilds' progress in a fair way, and say that you disagree with the rules AFTER a guild has completed all of the bosses and been ranked "lower" according to the rules of tracking, is only going to make you out to be bitter. I might suggest starting your own tracking thread or trying to promote changes to the rules in a constructive way, rather than bash an already established system.
Peace is a lie; there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Neverhett - GM of <Chosen> - Prophecy of the Five

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
01.17.2013 , 10:50 PM | #299
Shouldn't Ace get bonus points for not only doing kephess first, but also accomplishing Warstalker in 16m? something no other guild has accomplished? Just sayin...

Rupert's Avatar


Rupert
01.17.2013 , 10:56 PM | #300
I agree that title runs should be including in the tracking, since that's the final, overall achievement one can attain as a guild. Not only can you kill all the bosses (including the last one which is considered much harder), but you can do it in a clean, timely run. There would have to be policies to enforce verification of the screenshots though, since the titles can be achieved through multiple 8 man runs..
Peace is a lie; there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Neverhett - GM of <Chosen> - Prophecy of the Five