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I do not agree with the inclusion of SGRs.


TheBBP

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According to BW this won't happen (it's considered discriminatory, and I agree with BW)

 

This is a very thoughtful post, from a player who, like many of us pro-SGRers , values other aspects as well as romance. Thank you!

 

I don't see how it's discriminatory. It'd be each individual players preference. It allows those who hate it to turn it off while those who do can keep it on.

 

and before anyone says it only targets SGR, well, you CAN ignore and not initiate even the OGR in the game.

 

It's all in the preferences of each individual player.

 

My hunter isn't gonna romance Torian cause I see her as totally head over heels for Gault, while my Smuggler is not romancing Corso because she's a) in love with Darmas, and b) given the chance, would climb Risha like a tree.

Edited by Tattari
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I don't see how it's discriminatory. It'd be each individual players preference. It allows those who hate it to turn it off while those who do can keep it on.
A switch with 4 settings (all romances on, SGRs on, OGRs on, no romances on) would not be discriminatory, because it treats all players and all types of romances equally.

 

A toggle that was exclusively for switching SGRs on or off would be discriminatory. To understand why, imagine the reverse: SGRs always on, but a toggle that would allow OGRs to be switched on and off.

 

 

and before anyone says it only targets SGR, well, you CAN ignore and not initiate even the OGR in the game.
Likewise, players who dislike SGRs CAN ignore and not initiate SGRs... so a toggle for SGRs is unnecessary.
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According to BW this won't happen (it's considered discriminatory, and I agree with BW)

 

Yeah, I personally agree with Bioware on this. I also know that a switch to toggle same-gender romances on or off has been an open secret among players of EA's The Sims since at least the second game. I think EA went with the compromise route because they were controversy-adverse with a property that amounted to virtual dollhouses.

 

This is a very thoughtful post, from a player who, like many of us pro-SGRers , values other aspects as well as romance. Thank you!

 

I'm a story nut and a 100% completion nut. Only reason I bothered with this in the first place (had no interest in MMOs before this) was because "Oh! BIOWARE is writing!" Their writing style is superb, and their characters are the reason I keep coming back. My first exposure to them was listening to Minsc's dialogue and laughing so hard I was sore the next day. Continue onto KOTOR, where I wished the game engine allowed you to give Juhani a hug. Or Jade Empire where I was telling Ya Zhen to pack his %$%#$ bags and quit bothering that little girl.

 

Sure, I've now become entrenched (and somehow ended up as second-in-charge of a 70 person guild), and been learning aspects like Operations and PvP, but it's the story and the absolutely GORGEOUS Scenery that keeps me coming back (ok, so Alderaan takes forever to load, it's an opportunity to get a beer from the fridge or take a bathroom break while it's processing).

 

Any development on the story and companions, I would savor like good chocolate (you don't gobble the good stuff, after all). I see a same-gender romance option (Yeah, I think I'll like Mako or Risha. Or a male Consular hitting on Tharan could incur some riotously funny moments out of Holiday) as no different than an expansion to their quests (oh, how I miss a good loyalty mission!), or new bonuses/abilities to unlock on them or them on you (because you learn so many things from the people in your life). It's just another way to approach the story, another quest to try, more content to explore.

 

The game is rated Teen, and the Bounty Hunter story has the madam of an S&M brothel as a sidequest, Doc has a ticked-off ex in every port, a Sith Warrior can rape one of their companions. The Warrior and Inquisitor have matches made in Stockholm with Jaesa and Ashara. The male Jedi romances are also VERY unequal pairings (they're your Padawans!) Given this? A gay relationship is small potatoes and (depending on who becomes a gay option) might have fewer unfortunate implications than the heterosexual ones!

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I'm a story nut and a 100% completion nut. Only reason I bothered with this in the first place (had no interest in MMOs before this) was because "Oh! BIOWARE is writing!" Their writing style is superb, and their characters are the reason I keep coming back.

<< >>

Minsc.....

Juhani........

Ya Zhen.....

<< >>

 

... but it's the story and the absolutely GORGEOUS Scenery that keeps me coming back (ok, so Alderaan takes forever to load, it's an opportunity to get a beer from the fridge or take a bathroom break while it's processing).

I'm with you. My own memories are of Isabella in DA [*swoon*, *toes curl*]. People disparage romances as fluff, but even though 'it's only a game' I felt a great deal of affection and involvement with Isabella that truly deepened my experience... much like the emotional impact a beloved character in a well-written novel has [ I'm currently reading A Memory of Light, and I'm almost dreading each turn of the page because of my emotional entanglement with so many of the characters ]. I loved Varric too, although not as a romantic partner, of course.

 

 

The game is rated Teen, and the Bounty Hunter story has the madam of an S&M brothel as a sidequest, Doc has a ticked-off ex in every port, a Sith Warrior can rape one of their companions. The Warrior and Inquisitor have matches made in Stockholm with Jaesa and Ashara. The male Jedi romances are also VERY unequal pairings (they're your Padawans!) Given this? A gay relationship is small potatoes and (depending on who becomes a gay option) might have fewer unfortunate implications than the heterosexual ones!
A good point... completely missed, of course, by those who argue "SGRs? What about the kids ! !" Edited by markcymru
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The Warrior and Inquisitor have matches made in Stockholm with Jaesa and Ashara. The male Jedi romances are also VERY unequal pairings (they're your Padawans!) Given this? A gay relationship is small potatoes and (depending on who becomes a gay option) might have fewer unfortunate implications than the heterosexual ones!

 

Not only do the male Force-using classes have romances with their padawans/apprentices, said apprentices are only female. There's what, only one male force-using companion across all the classes, and is unromanceable? As opposed to four females, all of whom are romanceable. There are unfortunate implications all around.

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Not sure what else I should type here to stay within the rules other than I suggest that other needs be prioritized ahead of SGRs.

Luckily for the rest of us, your opinion is no more valid than any other. I fully support SGR's in SWTOR, as does the lore.

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Well we certainly shouldn't assume how "thick and heavy", it'll all appear, before we actually see it. personally, I think it should just be added normally, just like the original game, a flirt option here and there with a same gender counterpart. As for actual romances? I'm sure they mean something like you can have a relationship with a/your long-term contact on Makeb.

 

Future companions (if there are any) will probably have this as a priority - provided you're not already married to your padawan or something.

 

I don't think such a big song and dance should be made about this, either by us, or Bioware. It should have been more a "by the way, same-gender romantic interaction is being included in the game from Rise of the Hutt Cartel onward, and while we have no plans for new companions in the short-term, inclusion of this new feature is a priority"

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Request: Master (BioWare), the meatbags here still seem content with fighting amongst themselves about who's right and who's wrong. May I please "take action" against the next ones that insist on continuing the pointless rants? Please? Just a quick action? A little one? Verbal combat is nice, but the hunting of prey is far more enjoyable.

 

Opinion: I still say that it should be an optional download. Those who don't want it don't have to have it. Those who do can. Everybody wins.

 

Confused Query: Seriously, why can't anybody see the logic of this?

 

Fact: One side is going to have to give. We can't have it all one way. Seeing as how they're going to make it available anyways, the best thing to do is to make it an option. NOBODY can make EVERYBODY happy. There is no logical and reasonable reason why it being an option is wrong. It's not being withheld, and it's not being forced. And since it's part of the expansion, you're not paying anything to download it. Anybody who thinks about more than just themselves can see the simplicity and reasonableness of this.

 

Because there's no option to remove any other content. The "other side" is just going to have to do what everyone else does for features they don't like, like myself and PVP, ignore it and don't use it. How hard is it to just not click the flirt. (That was a rhetorical question. Don't answer it.) It's not the end of the world, just ignore it and before you know it the conversation is over. When the discussion is about making it so that gays don't exist in their world then the discussion is ******** and needs to be tossed out. We don't have a racial toggle and we don't need an SGR toggle.

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Because there's no option to remove any other content. The "other side" is just going to have to do what everyone else does for features they don't like, like myself and PVP, ignore it and don't use it. How hard is it to just not click the flirt. (That was a rhetorical question. Don't answer it.) It's not the end of the world, just ignore it and before you know it the conversation is over. When the discussion is about making it so that gays don't exist in their world then the discussion is ******** and needs to be tossed out. We don't have a racial toggle and we don't need an SGR toggle.

 

Query: See master? This is what I mean.

 

Fact: Nobody has said anything about removing anything. You say that as if it's already been implemented as a permanent thing. Makeb isn't even finished so there's nothing to be removed. They can alter it any time they want. And since you didn't notice it I'll point out that I never said anything about it being toggled or not there. If it's an optional additional download then those who want it can have it. I never said they couldn't or shouldn't because some don't.

 

Fact: This has nothing to do with any other content. This has to do with SGR. This is nothing like PvP. This is a function that has yet to be put in. Permanently. RotHC has yet to go on the PTS or even have an estimated release date.

 

Query: Yeah, you could just not click the flirt button, but what about those that don't want to read that kind of response at all? And what about when this moves on to companions? Would it be better to ignore it, or make it an optional addition? And what about when a player's companion starts coming on to their character of the same gender first? Is it REALLY a good idea to force that on those that DON'T want to see that or have that happen?

 

 

Request: I would seriously like to hear the developer's opinion on making it an optional download and answering those queries.

 

Admission: I do have to agree that discussions about not letting gays live in their world in a thread like this are stupid and immature. I don't condone being gay. I personally thing it's wrong. I also think that ANY meatbag relations of any sort, gay or straight, is appalling. But it doesn't mean it's okay for someone to deny them their choice in life or keep them from enjoying things their way.

 

(This post isn't about why being gay is okay or not. I'm agreeing that those who want to have it can have it despite my personal feelings about it. Any attacks on my personal view will be unnecessary and childish because if you hadn't noticed, I'm in HK character.)

 

Request: So any developer that can say if it being an optional additional download has or is being considered and answering any queries I've presented would be much appreciated. I only seek to help the master improve the game experience.

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First off, dude. It's an amateur move to edit someone's words when quoting them. It makes you look like a school age child.

 

I care plenty about features for everyone. Guild features will help the players who are involved in guilds. They should be looked at, but you're an arrogant person to assume they should put ahead of everything else, simply because You think they're an important feature.

 

I also know about the CE vendor. I can't say I agree with it's inclusion, but it's already a thing. I think there's plenty enough that is exclusive to it already. You do realise your statement could be turned right back on you, right? (Should there have been CE vendor updates from the beginning? Sure. But there wasn't. They "said" they would include it later, but realized it wasn't as easy as they thought. Oh well, they wanted it to work out. But it just didn't turn out that way, and priorities are not in the right place right now.) :o)

 

In short, what you need to realise is that no feature affects everybody. All features affect various amounts of the player base, only Bioware has the metrics on it's specific base. So any attempt to guess at numbers is just that, guessing.

 

PS: For the record, I play this game as an MMO. I play through the leveling content with a buddy, and we do FPs often. I tried playing this game solo and enjoying the story, but this game simply isn't a traditional RPG. Perhaps for a normal RPG player it seems to have a lot of elements of one, but at it's core it's an MMO. It's a partial fusion, at best.

 

Pift, That's it?! That's all you got?! My statement still stands. :rolleyes:

/yawn.

Try to troll harder next time. :p

Edited by xorcist
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Regarding whether or not a toggle option is discriminatory;

 

Yes and no. It's depends entirely on what it would do.

 

There are times when your character flirts with an npc and there are times when an npc flirts with your character. If you can toggle off the dialogue options which have your character flirting with an npc, then I think that is fine. It amounts to being able to choose the sexual orientation of your character.

 

However, if a toggle stops npc's flirting with you, then it IS discriminatory because it amounts to a "I don't want gays in my game" option.

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I also know about the CE vendor. I can't say I agree with it's inclusion, but it's already a thing. I think there's plenty enough that is exclusive to it already. You do realise your statement could be turned right back on you, right? (Should there have been CE vendor updates from the beginning? Sure. But there wasn't. They "said" they would include it later, but realized it wasn't as easy as they thought. Oh well, they wanted it to work out. But it just didn't turn out that way, and priorities are not in the right place right now.) :o)

 

Ummmm... Just an FYI.. The CE vendor was there during the beta.. There was a leaked video showing him prior to game release... I am an owner of the CE.. Dec. 20th, 2011 I went up that little elevator to see what he had.. It was talked about during the beta as to what he might have.. That was the first thing I did when I entered my CE game key.. Both my wife and I did.. I even bought a pet and companion customization..

 

So.. Not sure what you are talking about there.. But the CE vendor was out from the start.. :)

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Well, technically speaking, there's already a toggle of sorts: the dialogue wheel. If you don't want to engage in a certain option, be they [Flirt]s, [shock him]s, [Kill him]s, or any other sort of action, you have the choice whether to do them or not. If you want your character to do the option, click the option. If you don't, then don't click it. It really is that simple. If you can't handle an option being presented, what are you playing an RPG for?
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Seriously, just avoid clicking on the [Flirt] options. It is possible that a gay person will flirt with you IN REAL LIFE someday. Think of this as picking up a valuable survival skill so that your head doesn't explode if it happens (although I would go for "flattered, but not interested" instead of "I will choke you with my magical force powers" in real life personally).
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Quoted for truth. And because the way you put it made me chuckle :p

 

+1

 

Put yourself in other peoples shoes (though this is a rare concept in today's cultural atmosphere for a lot of people). If this game had only SGR wouldn't you want them to prioritize opposite gender romances? Wouldn't that be a significant aspect of a story driven game like this, especially considering all the content for people of a different gender preference than you. You may not like it or want it but you can at least understand why it's important for many people.

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Statement: Someone quoted one of my posts, but I can't find it. The one that quoted said that BioWare says that a toggle is a form of discrimination against sgr.

 

Statement: If that's the case, then not having it is a form of discrimination against those who don't want sgr.

 

Exclamation: Take that, meatbags!

 

Conclusion: That's why an optional download is better than forcing it on everybody who doesn't want it, and is easier to do than a toggle. My suggestion continues to stand.

Edited by HKtheindomitable
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Statement: Someone quoted one of my posts, but I can't find it. The one that quoted said that BioWare says that a toggle is a form of discrimination against sgr.

 

Statement: If that's the case, then not having it is a form of discrimination against those who don't want sgr.

 

Exclamation: Take that, meatbags!

 

Conclusion: That's why an optional download is better than forcing it on everybody who doesn't want it, and is easier to do than a toggle. My suggestion continues to stand.

 

I really don't think that argument holds water.

 

You can argue that having a toggle is not discrimination, but to say that IF it IS discrimination, then not allowing people to discriminate is discriminating against people who want to discriminate is totally nonsensical.

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