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Lightning effusion as tier 2 skill

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Lightning effusion as tier 2 skill

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.16.2013 , 07:07 AM | #1
It would be nice to see Lightning effusion as a tier 2 skill and can swap places with subversion which is specific to the lightning tree, while effusion benefits all of them.

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
01.16.2013 , 11:32 AM | #2
Its also much more powerful. Lightning effusion allows the 18/23 hybrid the use of shock on cooldown, which alone compensate for the higher crit damage on DoTs and deathfield.

Fairly sure with that, 13/28 would go above full lightning in damage, and even madness could go for it.

AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
01.16.2013 , 06:52 PM | #3
Lightning effusion if too powerful of a mechanic to be put that low in the tree. The hybrid dps specs already don't run out of force and full lightning doesn't have problems with force either if played right. Putting it as teir two would just make madness spec have a brain dead force management like the hybrid dps currently have. Full madness is the only spec that really suffers from a lack of force management mechanics, so changes should occur giving it a reliable management system; not making force management in full madness brain-dead like it is for hybrid.
Depreva (Sith Sorcerer) - Prophecy of the Five-

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.17.2013 , 06:37 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by AdmiralParmesan View Post
Lightning effusion if too powerful of a mechanic to be put that low in the tree. The hybrid dps specs already don't run out of force and full lightning doesn't have problems with force either if played right. Putting it as teir two would just make madness spec have a brain dead force management like the hybrid dps currently have. Full madness is the only spec that really suffers from a lack of force management mechanics, so changes should occur giving it a reliable management system; not making force management in full madness brain-dead like it is for hybrid.
Sure I agree that effusion accounts for brainless force management in hybrids and lightning, and would make madness also as such. Madness can never go ROOF if you keep on spamming FL, but this is hardly good play and hardly provides high burst damage. In order to put some form of pressure, even after a few secs, all abilities are needed and all of them cost from 35-50. A typical single target "burst" rotation of affliction/shock/death field/FL/proced crushing darkness/shock has a cost of 245*0.91 (electric induction) = 223, recovering 20-24 force from FL bring it to 200 force cost for this rotation. Within a minute you can go through this rotation 3-4 times and then ROOF spamming FL for 20 secs and if you have subversion LS to regain a tiny bit of force that will allow you to cast something else. Yes effusion might be a bit too much but it is already too much for lightning and hybrid builds. Reworking then maybe the mechanics and putting a skill for general force management for all trees and something special for each one up higher might be the best way to do. The quickest though is a simple swap with subversion in my opinion, even if I agree that it results in brainless force management.

Jayshames's Avatar


Jayshames
01.17.2013 , 03:29 PM | #5
Subversion is low down for lowbies who use the spec, it'd suck to go through PvE with that tree if your abilitys constantly got pushed back loads.

Madness tree is fine to be honest.
Sure I die alot, but that's only because people complain so much about sorcs that we become a target for no reason nowadays.

I'm quite happy the way sorcs are (not saying they dont need buff, i've simply accepted thats how we are) I can still deal good damage, good healing and can pull my team through the likes of huttball with bubbles and pulls.

GOLANX's Avatar


GOLANX
02.28.2014 , 10:53 PM | #6
I hate to necro an old thread but i feel i have to air an issue i have with Lightning effusion being too good. Disclaimer: my Sourc is only level 26 and normally madness spec,

i was playing around with my WZ dummy testing out lightning tree and hopefully understand what all the fuss is about with Madness sourcs running out of energy and Lightning sourcs not having that same problem. at first i was floored as i spread the points out to all the skills that would keep my energy stable, i found that i was on average force positive, and had 0 issue with keeping energy up, my energy bar wasn't dipping below 75% of my total energy. i then processed to respec and specifically avoid the energy positive skills while still specing into effusion, and i found that this time it was only a little harder to keep energy up. i then respeced again avoiding effusion and subversion and found my energy management to be near the same, maybe a little harder than madness. another respec collecting subversion and all of the other energy management skills but effusion showed my energy lasted quite a bit longer while remaining negative (the subversion i believe has a large effect and i had figured as much the difference for my assasin with Blood of Sith [10%/20%/30% increase to energy regeneration rate] skill was large and means she normally never has to use saber strike) a further respec this time selecting effusion and reserves as my only energy management skill i found that with just effusion my energy loss was about the same as in my previous test: everything but effusion.

a 75% cost reduction is massive and the 50% chance on citing isnt hard when you keep your DOTs up (yes DOTs can proc effusion) and use force lightning on CD, effusion relies on the RNG and as always the RNG is vulnerable to multiple rolls, the more ticks of damage you do the more times you roll the RNG the more likely it is to proc making the DOTs and Force lighting key to keeping it up. the ability isnt really fit for a tier 3 and certainly not 2 as the op suggested

as i see it a coupple things could be done to equalize the Power plus ability of lightning spec and the power minus ability of Madness:

1.
Flip electric induction (reduce cost of all force attacks by 3%/6%/9% and accuracy 1%/2%/3% lightning tier 1 skill) with Will of the Sith (increase willpower 3%/6% madness tier 1 skill).

Lightning storm no longer makes chain lightning free, wrath will now make crushing darkness or lightning strike free when consumed

Lightning effusion now only reduces the cost of the next 2 abilities by 50% (down from 75%)

2. flip Lightning effusion with Shapeless spirit (reduce damage taken while stunned by 15%/30% madness tier 7 skill) lightning effusion now only reduces the cost of the next 2 abilities by 50% (down from 75%)

3. Lightning effusion now only procs on shock, lightning strike, chain lightning and thundering blast

Flip electric induction (reduce cost of all force attacks by 3%/6%/9% and accuracy 1%/2%/3% lightning tier 1 skill) with Will of the Sith (increase willpower 3%/6% madness tier 1 skill).

Lightning storm no longer makes chain lightning free, wrath will now make crushing darkness or lightning strike free when consumed

anyone else have some thoughts?

colemanron's Avatar


colemanron
03.03.2014 , 10:36 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
The quickest though is a simple swap with subversion in my opinion, even if I agree that it results in brainless force management.

I would like to ask a question here, and I will state I am not trying to provoke or ridicule anyone or anything, I am simply very curious.

How could or should a DPS Sorcerer's Force management not be brainless?

In my opinion and as far as my understanding goes about the game and the class secifically, It seems to me the Sorcerer is the only DPS class built to be limited only by time and not by resource. The class lacks any kind of resource management tools, like a spammable, Force free attack or a Force regeneration cooldown. The only thing may be argued to be a resource manager tool is Consumption, but even the idea of using it as a DPS seems ridicolous to me. I hope no one thinks seriously we should use an ability that is on the GCD, deals damage to the caster and lowers passive Force regeneration after being used.

The above makes me think Force management for DPS Sorcerers is not supposed to exist, yet I often see people mention it. Anyone care to explain what's going on with this? Am I missing something?

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
03.03.2014 , 06:10 PM | #8
This is a very old thread and given force speed is tier2 of the healing tree and effusion as tier 2 on the mid tree simply means that you have to make a choice between survivability or easy force management, and from a pvp perspective the first is preferable. But anyway when it was written, it was an easy fix for balance/madness for pvp, as there are not really any force management in pve. It is often in these specs and kind of inevitable at some point to ROOF.