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Accuracy in end game


Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.16.2013 , 08:09 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Mennil View Post
Kitru, do you have a website with data that supports your hypothesis? If so, I would be interested in reading it for myself. If not, then you are also citing your opinion, at which point we disagree - such is life.
Just check out TORparse. Tam (KeyboardNinja) is a Shadow tank that I know doesn't stack accuracy at all and yet manages only to miss ~3% of the time with Double Strike and 13% with Saber Strike. If the 10% were actually required, he would be missing roughly 9% of the time, rather than 3% (1% Legacy accuracy and whatnot).

Quote:
From my readings of other websites (noxxic and mmo-champions), they disagree with your statement.
Noxxic is just full of bad. It's almost completely out of date, uses flawed stat prioritization that ignores the realities of gearing in TOR (not to mention *vastly* overvaluing accuracy for *every class*), and generally just has *bad* information; as I've said to other people, if a bad that thinks he's good is doing something wrong, chances are he's read noxxic and has no clue how bad he actually is. MMO-Champions is *painfully* out of date, as are most of the other sites other than this one, mainly because a lot of people stopped posting on them when they quit the game 6-8 months ago. It used to be on the forefront of theorycrafting, but it's now a fair deal behind the times.

The information I use is based on the information my parser tells me (I use MoX). When I have no accuracy and never miss with my F/T attacks *at all* and miss only ~3-5% of the time with Double Strike and Spinning Strike, I feel pretty confident in saying that, no, raid bosses do *not* have 10% Defense chance, and, in fact, accuracy is less valuable than Power, which contributes more to your DPS based on Math (when I can prove that, as a tank, stacking Accuracy provides less DPS than Power when you're only using your basic attack, it's pretty well been debunked, and I've done it a few times).

It wasn't until the combat log was released and that parsers started actually seeing use that people started actually figuring out how much defense chance operations bosses actually had. The 10% you see recommended was simply a lot of players following suit when a developer said "tanks can experience returns from accuracy of up to 10%" when asked why there was so much accuracy on tank gear; it didn't mean that it was even *remotely* optimal, nor did it mean that you actually *need* anything approaching that much, but a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon, even if it didn't hold true according to *any* testing or analysis. It's this that most of the third party sites get their arbitrary 110% from, even if it's not true. It's also why I don't trust *any* of those sites or even expect them to be 3rd party verified: they're almost all painfully out of date and, even then, they were using arbitrary allotments rather than math to actually arrive at their conclusions.
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NotRonin's Avatar


NotRonin
01.16.2013 , 08:41 PM | #12
There is nothing wrong with mixing some DPS gear ton your tank. However accuracy gives you the least amount of increase in damage per points spent, as it only applies to non-force/non-tech attacks. Power. crit and surge will apply to all of your attacks.

RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
01.16.2013 , 09:03 PM | #13
Assassin tank vs Lava dude in EV, feel free to stack 300 accuracy on your gear, you won't need it, you would gain more from power or it would be smarter to take any defensive stat, however it is your choice.
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arkitip's Avatar


arkitip
01.16.2013 , 10:06 PM | #14
You will, at least when parsing on the dummy, absolutely miss your special attacks@98% accuracy. To be fair, I can't speak for Ops bosses because I've typically only paid a lot of attention to my parses for progression content where I've been as close to 100% without going over as possible.

SharpG's Avatar


SharpG
01.16.2013 , 10:35 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Just check out TORparse. Tam (KeyboardNinja) is a Shadow tank that I know doesn't stack accuracy at all and yet manages only to miss ~3% of the time with Double Strike and 13% with Saber Strike. If the 10% were actually required, he would be missing roughly 9% of the time, rather than 3% (1% Legacy accuracy and whatnot).



Noxxic is just full of bad. It's almost completely out of date, uses flawed stat prioritization that ignores the realities of gearing in TOR (not to mention *vastly* overvaluing accuracy for *every class*), and generally just has *bad* information; as I've said to other people, if a bad that thinks he's good is doing something wrong, chances are he's read noxxic and has no clue how bad he actually is. MMO-Champions is *painfully* out of date, as are most of the other sites other than this one, mainly because a lot of people stopped posting on them when they quit the game 6-8 months ago. It used to be on the forefront of theorycrafting, but it's now a fair deal behind the times.

The information I use is based on the information my parser tells me (I use MoX). When I have no accuracy and never miss with my F/T attacks *at all* and miss only ~3-5% of the time with Double Strike and Spinning Strike, I feel pretty confident in saying that, no, raid bosses do *not* have 10% Defense chance, and, in fact, accuracy is less valuable than Power, which contributes more to your DPS based on Math (when I can prove that, as a tank, stacking Accuracy provides less DPS than Power when you're only using your basic attack, it's pretty well been debunked, and I've done it a few times).

It wasn't until the combat log was released and that parsers started actually seeing use that people started actually figuring out how much defense chance operations bosses actually had. The 10% you see recommended was simply a lot of players following suit when a developer said "tanks can experience returns from accuracy of up to 10%" when asked why there was so much accuracy on tank gear; it didn't mean that it was even *remotely* optimal, nor did it mean that you actually *need* anything approaching that much, but a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon, even if it didn't hold true according to *any* testing or analysis. It's this that most of the third party sites get their arbitrary 110% from, even if it's not true. It's also why I don't trust *any* of those sites or even expect them to be 3rd party verified: they're almost all painfully out of date and, even then, they were using arbitrary allotments rather than math to actually arrive at their conclusions.
You do realize you can't replace power with accuracy right? DPS trading heavily DRed surge for some accuracy (Your options are alacrity, surge or accuracy) is the best option for min/maxing but it won't make a huge difference either way.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.16.2013 , 11:10 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by SharpG View Post
You do realize you can't replace power with accuracy right? DPS trading heavily DRed surge for some accuracy (Your options are alacrity, surge or accuracy) is the best option for min/maxing but it won't make a huge difference either way.
For DPS, yes, Accuracy competes with Surge and Alacrity on enhancements. For tanks, on the other hand, it competes with Shield rating, which tanks should always taking over Accuracy. Of course, in the pursuit of arbitrarily desired Accuracy, some tanks will actually aug for Accuracy, which should never be done, mainly because said accuracy will improve your DPS less than you would get by taking power or your primary stat.

Of course, for DPS, Accuracy is actually a worthwhile stat, but that's not what I was referring to; I was specifically rebuking the comment that Tanks should ever have accuracy on their gear when they have no mechanical reason to do so.
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SharpG's Avatar


SharpG
01.17.2013 , 07:57 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
For DPS, yes, Accuracy competes with Surge and Alacrity on enhancements. For tanks, on the other hand, it competes with Shield rating, which tanks should always taking over Accuracy. Of course, in the pursuit of arbitrarily desired Accuracy, some tanks will actually aug for Accuracy, which should never be done, mainly because said accuracy will improve your DPS less than you would get by taking power or your primary stat.

Of course, for DPS, Accuracy is actually a worthwhile stat, but that's not what I was referring to; I was specifically rebuking the comment that Tanks should ever have accuracy on their gear when they have no mechanical reason to do so.
Ah, right, augging for accuracy is a big no no for any class in the game lol

steave's Avatar


steave
01.24.2013 , 12:11 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The information I use is based on the information my parser tells me (I use MoX). When I have no accuracy and never miss with my F/T attacks *at all* and miss only ~3-5% of the time with Double Strike and Spinning Strike, I feel pretty confident in saying that, no, raid bosses do *not* have 10% Defense chance, and, in fact, accuracy is less valuable than Power, which contributes more to your DPS based on Math (when I can prove that, as a tank, stacking Accuracy provides less DPS than Power when you're only using your basic attack, it's pretty well been debunked, and I've done it a few times).
The operations training dummy is supposed to have the same defensive stats as raid bosses.
This is the result of accidentally replacing the wrong enhancement yesterday and dropping my accuracy to 98.43%, rail shot hitting only 97.96% of the time - aka the expected amount if it has 10% defense considering that railshot has 10% bonus accuracy. It could be slightly lower and that result was just me being slightly unlucky, but it has to be higher than 8.43% since I'd have been hitting 100% of the time otherwise. The rapid shots results would even indicate that the defense is a little bit higher (86.48% accuracy in this parse), but that's probably just bad luck.