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TPS for Guardian/Jugg tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
TPS for Guardian/Jugg tanks

leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
01.09.2013 , 06:20 PM | #11
In terms of pulling aggro from the tank, melee DPS will pull aggro from the tank if they are at 110% above the tank's current threat. Range DPS will pull at 130%. There has been some theorycrafting for the exact range to be at for 130% to apply and this was found to be at 2.76m.

If a tank is constantly is able to taunt at >2.76m, he is getting a threat boost of 130% each time. As shown in my parse above this threat boost can get to 300k and even Guardian/Jugg TPS can hit over 4k.

If a tank is taunting at melee range (<2.76m), the threat boost he is getting is only 110%. Even the single target taunt and aoe taunts are used together this only gives a threat boost of 121%. In the event of a range DPS pulling aggro mid-way through the fight, the tank might not get back aggro.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.09.2013 , 06:59 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by leto_cleon View Post
In terms of pulling aggro from the tank, melee DPS will pull aggro from the tank if they are at 110% above the tank's current threat. Range DPS will pull at 130%.
Most melee will actually be at outside of the 110% range, especially on the bigger bosses. Unless they're explicitly hugging the boss, they'll require 130% just like the ranged.

Quote:
There has been some theorycrafting for the exact range to be at for 130% to apply and this was found to be at 2.76m.
It's not theorycrafting. It's experimentation. Theorycrafting revolves around theory. Experimentation actually involves going in game and figuring out what's going on.

And your "theorycrafting" isn't even correct. The melee range for threat is based off of being within 4m of the center of the target's model; for comparison, melee range for attacks is 4m of the outside of the target's model (the range listed in the UI is actually the range from the outside of the target's model). The reason why you found 2.76m to be the "sweet spot" is because the target dummy has a model radius of 1.24m.
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leto_cleon's Avatar


leto_cleon
01.09.2013 , 08:13 PM | #13
Hmm... if both melee and ranged DPS actually are at the 130% threshold to pull threat, then an aggro pull mid-fight without the tank range taunting is worse than I thought.

For those interested in the exact reference on the >2.76m taunts - http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum....html#pid21688

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
01.10.2013 , 10:48 AM | #14
I have also found that I rarely have threat issues beyond 30s into a fight (except TFB phase 1 due to each tentacle spawning with new aggro table and NiM trenchcutters, but that's a completely different story). As such I prefer snap threat and a strong opener over high overall DPS which is why I prefer Immortal over Hybrid spec.

In 30s you have time to taunt twice, with AoE being your fail-safe. On a tank swap fight the first swap usually happens within this threshold which is why you have to save your single target taunt (On T&Z and F&S I taunt after 3rd GCD even though it does little in building threat but any later and I may not have a taunt ready for the swap).

Through testing I am currently settled at this opener:

0s Saber Throw - pull, 3 rage
1.5s Force Charge - close distance, 6 rage
3s Smash - nice damage, can be used while moving target, accuracy debuff, 4 stacks of armour debuff, 3 rage
4.5s Sundering Assault - kind of necessary on dummies, applies the last armour debuff making attacks hit more, 5 rage
6s Force Scream - high damage, sonic barrier 5 rage (with talent)
7.5s Backhand - high threat, 5 rage
9s Crushing Blow - high damage, high threat, refresh armour debuff, 1 rage
10.5s Force Choke - nice damage, must be talented to work well and be mobile, 4 rage
12s Ravage - high damage, 4 rage
16s Smash - nice damage, refresh armour debuff, 1 rage

After that opener it goes into the general lull of Enrage/Sunder/Vicious Slash and waiting on cds. The rage values are based on not generating rage via defending or having any Revenge stacks so you will end up with more, you will also be able to throw in a Retaliation when appropriate which cannot be done on the dummies. I generally taunt after the second Smash, but when I know that there are crazy DPS or I need a switch I taunt after the first Smash meaning my taunt will be up again at 19s into the fight.

Essentially put all your heavy hitting attacks between two Smashes, obviously the exact order can be altered. I have been toying with the idea of using 2 Crushing Blows but I can't get 12s cd on CB and using 1 without already having 5 stacks of armour debuff seems wasteful. I will try more parsing later see if I can get more even snap threat.

Gear: http://i.imgur.com/GOAA5.jpg - 58/61, not fully augmented, has been upgraded since
Spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#10...dMdrzZcMMZ0M.2
Parse: http://www.torparse.com/a/82955
Misses:
2. Crushing Blow
4. Crushing Blow
9. Force Charge, Sundering Assault and Crushing Blow - best to ignore this fight in any statistic
12. Sundering Assault

Yep, missing with CB hurts snap threat, Juggs do need accuracy. I like the idea of using accuracy adrenals in openers to save rating for mitigation instead.
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Shotr-'s Avatar


Shotr-
01.11.2013 , 05:44 PM | #15
where do you go to get a TPS meter?

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FlavaBizkit
01.11.2013 , 06:33 PM | #16
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pieceofjunk's Avatar


pieceofjunk
01.16.2013 , 06:32 PM | #17
You will never get a good readout on your TPS on a dummy for a guardian, Defense or Hybrid. The reason being is that we generate addition focus for being attacked. This means in real fights you have more focus to spend on your high damage attacks. Also in the full defense spec each Slash lowers the CD on Combat Focus, therefore you can use this more often in a Defense build to generate more threat.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.16.2013 , 07:25 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by pieceofjunk View Post
You will never get a good readout on your TPS on a dummy for a guardian, Defense or Hybrid. The reason being is that we generate addition focus for being attacked.
The bigger reason is the lack of Riposte, which, on its own, accounts for roughly 15-20% of your total DPS/TPS. The Focus generated is only one every 3 seconds (5 functional Focus every 6 seconds if you use Courage *perfectly* and keep both Blade Storm and Force Sweep on CD in perfect sync, which almost never happens) which accounts for, maybe, 10-15% of your total potential DPS lost by waiting on resources.
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grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
01.24.2013 , 04:10 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by pieceofjunk View Post
You will never get a good readout on your TPS on a dummy for a guardian, Defense or Hybrid. The reason being is that we generate addition focus for being attacked. This means in real fights you have more focus to spend on your high damage attacks. Also in the full defense spec each Slash lowers the CD on Combat Focus, therefore you can use this more often in a Defense build to generate more threat.
It's worth noting that Kitru is actually more correct about Riposte for Hybrid. In Hybrid, the stance generation is every 6 seconds. Riposte is 1 every 6 seconds so they offset each other in terms of Focus generated and used. You can have a look at threat generated from Riposte in a real world environment and add that onto a dummy parse to get a good idea of your TPS as a Hybrid Guardian. Full Defence on the other hand, your only viable (and still not accurate) option is to go pick a fight with a single Elite or Champion mob since stance generation is every 3 seconds and Courage makes a noticeable difference as Kitru mentioned.
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