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Does Annihilation need a little buff for PvP?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Does Annihilation need a little buff for PvP?

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
01.15.2013 , 03:54 PM | #11
Are you also actively advocating for...

All Operative DPS
AP & Shieldtech PT
31 point Immortal or Vengence Jugg
31 point Sniper builds in any tree
Sorc DPS, 31 point Sorc healing
The entire Mercenary AC
Any 31 point Assassin builds

Because all of the above are afflicted with just about as many (if not more) problems than any Marauder spec, including Annihilation.

PT has Pyro.
Juggy has hybrid tank and lolsmash
Assassin and Sniper have hybrid builds only
Sorc has bubble stun and hybrid heals (though you do sometimes see a puddler)
Op has healing
Mercenary has healing, which is subpar, and is a complete farce otherwise.

And we're complaining about Annihilation being "less good" because it the easiest Marauder spec to neutralize from a DPS perspective (provided that healer(s) are spamming cleanses like crazy) and it has so-so burst (like the majority of other DPS specs for other ACs)?

I mean, compared to ANY other AC except maybe Sin or Sniper (which is of limited utility in RWZ to begin with), Marauder is in a good place. Sure, Anni being more viable in Rated would be nifty, but that's not going to happen until BioWare reduces the focus on pure burst in PVP. The spec is WAY TOO STRONG otherwise to muck with, it just isn't suited to the current metagame.
Srs'bsns, GM of <Proper Villains> of The Ebon Hawk
5/5 Nightmare Power DF & DP
"This is why we don't bring Assassin tanks"

JediMasterSLC's Avatar


JediMasterSLC
01.16.2013 , 04:25 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Omophorus View Post
Are you also actively advocating for...

All Operative DPS
AP & Shieldtech PT
31 point Immortal or Vengence Jugg
31 point Sniper builds in any tree
Sorc DPS, 31 point Sorc healing
The entire Mercenary AC
Any 31 point Assassin builds

Because all of the above are afflicted with just about as many (if not more) problems than any Marauder spec, including Annihilation.

PT has Pyro.
Juggy has hybrid tank and lolsmash
Assassin and Sniper have hybrid builds only
Sorc has bubble stun and hybrid heals (though you do sometimes see a puddler)
Op has healing
Mercenary has healing, which is subpar, and is a complete farce otherwise.

And we're complaining about Annihilation being "less good" because it the easiest Marauder spec to neutralize from a DPS perspective (provided that healer(s) are spamming cleanses like crazy) and it has so-so burst (like the majority of other DPS specs for other ACs)?

I mean, compared to ANY other AC except maybe Sin or Sniper (which is of limited utility in RWZ to begin with), Marauder is in a good place. Sure, Anni being more viable in Rated would be nifty, but that's not going to happen until BioWare reduces the focus on pure burst in PVP. The spec is WAY TOO STRONG otherwise to muck with, it just isn't suited to the current metagame.
Besides snipers, I agree that the specs you listed are weak for ranked.

Imo, watchman is overall:
All Operative DPS- better than scrapper/concealment, worse than df/lethality.
AP & Shieldtech PT- better than AP/tactics, about even with tank
31 point Immortal or Vengence Jugg- better than full tank, worse than full veng/vig
31 point Sniper builds in any tree- worse than all 3 full sniper specs
Sorc DPS, 31 point Sorc healing- better than full TK/lightning, worse than puddle heals, full balance/madness, and TK/lightning-balance/madness hybrid (bubble DPS).
The entire Mercenary AC- better than gunnery arsenal, about even with assault/pyro, worse than heals.
Any 31 point Assassin builds- worse than full tank, better than full infil/deception and balance/madness. They do have viable tank/middle tree, tank/shared tree, and middle tree/shared tree specs though/

I'll admit that sniper is the AC I know the least about, but good gunslingers I've talked to say they usually run full 31 specs, both MM/SS, sabo/eng, and df/lethality. I know there are some viable hybrids though.

I'm not saying anni needs fixing now or that it should take priority over fixing commandos and such. And I agree that it would be hard to make it viable in competitive play without making big changes or making it OP.
55s: POT5- Kakarrotx-Sent, Paraguss-Sorc, Brawlly-Jug, Meleehealer-Mara
Bastion- Greenn-Mando, Radishz-Scoundrel, Trunkks-Shadow, Burdok-Sniper, Lettucce-PT

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
01.16.2013 , 11:18 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Galoomp View Post
Annihilation needs a damage buff in PVE also. Given that carnage can match the sustained dps but also has crazy burst, it's hard to rationalise speccing anni at all.
Looks like someone doesn't know how to play Annihilation correctly.
Carnage cannot match Annihilation's sustained dps.

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
01.16.2013 , 12:39 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
Looks like someone doesn't know how to play Annihilation correctly.
Carnage cannot match Annihilation's sustained dps.
True statement, but making that work in the "real world" of progression is easier said than done.

In some fights, fine-tuning tactics can increase uptime and reduce the odds that Annihilator stacks will fall off, giving Annihilation the edge.

In some fights, you can't avoid downtime, and as soon as Annihilator stacks fall off, Carnage pulls ahead in the sustained DPS race no matter how good you are (especially if it happens more than once).

The problem isn't Annihilation, the problem is design philosophy for PVE endgame. Changing Annihilation is an inferior option to slight modifications to how encounters are built.

Likewise, from a PVP perspective the DPS of the spec isn't lacking, but how it's applied is not ideally suited to current WZs or the current state of the metagame. Battlefield design and TTK are what make Annihilation inferior, not Annihilation itself. There's no way to tweak Annihilation for PVP without complete resdesign that will address its performances in current warzones or with current average TTK.
Srs'bsns, GM of <Proper Villains> of The Ebon Hawk
5/5 Nightmare Power DF & DP
"This is why we don't bring Assassin tanks"

Edonidd's Avatar


Edonidd
01.16.2013 , 01:36 PM | #15
All DoT trees in this game need to be looked at. When designing those trees the devs looked at other classes and decided they need some dot classes too. However they didn't understand game theory, give and take, min maxing, tradeoffs, or whatever you want to call it.

For instance my Madness Sorc has to use a GCD to apply a dot or to do an instant ability. The dot does 2000 damage over 15 seconds, with ticks every 3 seconds, no instant tick. My instant ability does 2000 damage instantly. So I get no reward in DPS for using a dot. However my dot can be purged/cleansed or the target can die before 15 seconds is up. So there is actually a penalty for going with a dot over an instant ability. Plus dots do not interrupt captures or break stealth, so again no benefit, but they do break CC, so you are actually punished.

I will say anni specced maras are in a better place than leth snipers or madness sorcs, because you don't waste the whole GCD just to apply a dot, the dot is just a bonus. Or not exactly a bonus, but in addition to.