Encourage World PvP - make Expertise ONLY work in WarZones

^_^ making a stat not work would not cause more world pvp. goals and rewards would

Warzones are clearly the realm of PvPers and thus Expertise. Flashpoints, Operations and other instanced areas are clearly the realm of PvEers. The Open World currently is a shared environment, presently there is much more incentive for PvEers to be in the Open World.

Here, they can earn rewards to improve their gear and complete their story quests. Unfortunately, the way the Open World is set up PvEers will never have an advantage over PvPers. That is, in the shared places where PvEers can work to improve their gear and progress, PvEers will at best be on equal footing - but most likely be at a disadvantage - to a PvPer. Fundamentally, this is flawed.

In short, the Open World favors PvE objectives, but favors PvP-geared players.

One way to correct this mismatch would be to eliminate the benefits of Expertise in the Open World as HoloTweed suggested. There are flaws with this as it effectively nerfs the best equipped PvPers. Still, there has to be a better way to balance Open World PvP and reward both players for their invested time and quality of gear. I think this is fundamentally what HoloTweed wants - although correct me if I am wrong.

Everyone should want this as it will promote more Open World PvP, including forum-planned events, impromptu battles and one-on-one duels.

^^ He gets it. Exactly.

The problem is, that I don'T think that just removing the expertise is a solution in any way. I am pretty sure, many PvP players would leave the game if that happens, I certainly would. So, what all the PvP players are saying is that whatever you do, don't make the game that it also is better for PvE players and their raid gear in open world PvP.

So, I (and many other PvP players) want more open world PvP, but not one in which we have to do operations to get the best gear for that job.

Perhaps HoloTweed's thread title should have been "How to Encourage Open World PvP?" S/He proposed one way - eliminate Expertise outside of Warzones. This clearly upset a number of people. Honestly, it isn't the ideal solution, but there has to be something that can be done. Again the underlying issue:

The Open World favors PvE objectives, but favors PvP-geared players.

So let's brainstorm worthwhile changes, I'll start:

• Allow people to have dual equip armor sets and have the respective fight draw on whichever is best. Clearly this is complicated what if I am attacking an NPC and a player attacks me. Still, at least it rewards people who have invested in PVP and people who have invested in PvE.
  
• Provide PvP rewards for Open World kills. Just as you get no credit for killing low level NPCs, you should not get credit for killing lower valor level players. However, if a lower valor player kills a higher valor player they should be rewarded. Again, there are some challenges with this as groups of players might have different valor level players.

These are two alternatives I just thought of, through more discussion perhaps we can find a viable option.

OK... so then how do you make it so WarZone PvP players don't have such an outrageous advantage in Open World PvP that takes place in the PvE world? Don't say "get recruit gear" because a) it isn't moddable and b) it's SOOOO ugly.

I don't know why "real" PvPers would want to have such an unfair advantage in the PvE world over players who would otherwise enjoy Open World fighting except that they have to either wear butt ugly armor (that gimps them doing the PvE quests that are the ONLY quests in Open World) or they have farm WarZones - and get roflstomped by those in Elite gear - to get moddable armor (that gimps them doing the PvE quests that are the ONLY quests in Open World) .

I love how PvPers threaten to quit if their advantage is taken away. It's fine for them to have better gear in the Open World (which is the PvE realm) but if they situation was reversed? Oh NOOOOO it's UNSUB time.

So fine, as I've said, let expertise function a DIFFERENT WAY in Open World, as long as it no longer gives WarZone players an advantage. That advantage should be reserved for WarZones ONLY.

First, why do you call the open world a PvE world, I play on a PvP server, for me it is a PvP world, that just has also some PvE elements there, so it is not a PvE world for me. Look also to GW2, their eternal Battlegrouds are just there for PvP players, and still there are mobs there which you can fight and which have events attached to them.

PvP players are the once that want more than any PvE players the open world PvP to work, we chose our server for that reason. So, of course we are angree if suddenly PvE players would be better in the aspect of the game they never have done anything for and we would just be bad or had to grind some thing we don't like. Don't get me wrong, there are PvP players who also like doing some PvE stuff, and of course there are also PvP players who do not really like warzones, but would prefer to do open world PvP.

So, instead of removing Expertise, give players an otion to get PvP gear without having to do Warzones. Which was actually possible in the first months of this game, before the mercenary commendations were removed. I hope they will return with a revamped Ilum, so that you guys can get PvP gear without having to play warzones, but that means you might have to use the recruit gear for some weeks, just like any other player who hits 50 have to deal with it, not to have the best equipment from the start.

The only other option would be to make PvE and PvP gear completly the same, but I am pretty sure that some PvE players would complain then that PvP players just can do their operations on nightmare mode, while never having played an operation before, so they would feel cheated, just like PvP players would feel cheated if one just takes away the Expertise.

I like your thinking EXCEPT it would still require Open World players to farm PvP gear to remain competitive against attacks on them in the Open World... and PvP gear (as those players themselves attest) are not as good as the PvE gear players would naturally be using performing PvE quests in the Open World.

So it therefore still falls to eliminating the current effects of Expertise in Open World and finding some way to let it buff by X% and Y% the Endurance and Main stats that a WarZone player has. In the end, everything should be relatively equal, based on the level and type (endurance, main stat, power, crit, etc.) of gear.

The reality is that even on a PvP server the Open World only features PvE objectives of value. If a player is in the Open World they should be in PvE gear to help them complete their PvE objectives. Anyone not in PvE has a different objective: to kill players of the opposite faction, which is fine if you are on a PvP server. The issue is that this puts the PvEers in the Open World at a severe disadvantage.

For example, if I am attacked by someone wearing PvP gear while questing in Section X - I have PvE equipped because I have a PvE objective - the fight will depend on skill, gear and expertise. Assuming equal skill and gear - Dread Guard vs. Elite Ware Hero - the PvEer will always lose due to expertise. Even varying skill and gear, the PvPer still has the advantage as they have another dimension to harness, expertise.

First off, I should have said my two bullet point ideas were meant to be either or, not both. In any event, I recognize that my first suggestion of allowing dual equipped armor would require people to do both PvP and PvE to be most competitive in the Open World. My response to this is simple: It's a PvP server!

In any event, I do not think this is a terribly widespread issue on my server at this time. Still, I do believe that finding a better balance for PvP gear in the Open World would ultimately improve Open World PvP.

If you are in PvE gear in Section X and someone in PvP gear attacks you, you still can win. All you have to do is to use the environment to your advangage, push the attacker in mob groups, so that he gets attackt be the mobs or run through a mob group and use stealth or find some other ways to get mobs attcking him, and suddenly the situattion might look much better for you. Winning in an open world PvP fight is not just about the gear, it's still about knowing what you are doing.