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What historical person would have made a glorious Jedi? Which a glorious Sith?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
What historical person would have made a glorious Jedi? Which a glorious Sith?

Ystig's Avatar


Ystig
01.11.2013 , 02:29 PM | #1
Taking in a canon like Star Wars, it's impossible not to make analogies to our own world. From a genre standpoint, it's mythology and it's fantasy in the broadest possible scope. It echoes themes from history and the human experience.

From within that history and human experience, then, which people do you look to as reflecting the principles and the political forces which define conflict in the Star Wars universe? Who is our own history's greatest Jedi? Who our greatest Sith?

Obviously, my sig gives an indication of one individual who I think to reflect a profoundly Sith outlook.

It's appealing and trivial to point to a virtuous historical political, philosophic or spiritual figure as reflecting the light side, and a despicable figure in one of these categories as reflecting the dark. But I tend to think there's more to the Empire and the Republic, more to the Light Side and Dark, than merely being Bad or Good.

So who are earth's greatest Sith, and who its greatest Jedi?
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Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
01.11.2013 , 08:53 PM | #2
A very interesting topic. I'm not sure if it is against the rules, though.

I'll start with some Roman Emperor's, because they are far in the past:

Glorious Sith: Caesar and Augustus, both were extremely powerhungry and clever on their way to power. When they allied themselves with others, it always ended in war until they were the absolute rulers.

Glorious Jedi: Marcus Aurelius and Vespasian, both were wise rulers who tried to act for the benefits of everyone. IIRC both were significantly less corrupt, tried to improve life for those people at a disatvantage etc.

Of course, all of them wouldn't be perfect Sith or perfect Jedi. They all did some things which look more like something the opposite side would do. Still, legends would tell them as early examples.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Praxeum's Avatar


Praxeum
01.12.2013 , 02:29 AM | #3
Abe Lincoln Jedi - Ultimate goal was peace and unification, willing to fight for what he believed. Calm leader in the face of dire times. Fought for freedom and equality. Plus, could be one with the force in the Lincoln bedroom (reportedly).

Genghis Khan Sith - Dominated, set on conquering world. Ruthless in pursuit of goals. Valued battle as a means to an end. Tore up Oshman's in San Dimas.
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Valeriadrina's Avatar


Valeriadrina
01.12.2013 , 08:32 AM | #4
Napoleon Bonaparte would have made an excellent Sith Lord.

As for a Jedi, maybe Mahatma Gandhi could have been wizened old pacifist jedi.

Kristjansa's Avatar


Kristjansa
01.12.2013 , 09:27 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxeum View Post
Abe Lincoln Jedi - Ultimate goal was peace and unification, willing to fight for what he believed. Calm leader in the face of dire times. Fought for freedom and equality. Plus, could be one with the force in the Lincoln bedroom (reportedly).

Genghis Khan Sith - Dominated, set on conquering world. Ruthless in pursuit of goals. Valued battle as a means to an end. Tore up Oshman's in San Dimas.
What the...? Abe Lincoln fought against the states that wanted independence from the union. How is that fighting for freedom?

And how can you say that Lincoln wanting "unification" made him a Jedi, but Genghis Khan also unified the clans and yet he's a sith? Doesn't every conqueror want unification? And doesn't every conqueror want peace after they have unified the other countries?

VigDiath's Avatar


VigDiath
01.12.2013 , 10:00 AM | #6
As far as a Jedi, I would go with Joan of Arc. I'm not entirely convinced she was not a Jedi sent from a galaxy far, far away to prevent the Sith from arriving on Earth . But as far as Jedi goes, I think she fits the bill. Self sacrificing, brave, and quite the legend.

Another Jedi I could think of would be MLK. I would liken him to a Sage healer for the way he mended, or attempted to heal the relationship between African Americans and Americans of the time. He preferred to fight with knowledge rather than his fists, he he led the civil rights battle from the forefront.

As far as Sith goes...forgive me if anyone is Catholic, but I think a few Catholic popes over the years fit the bill. Not all of them mind you, but a few of them. Controlling, manipulative, deceitful, yet powerful individuals for the most part. One that comes to mind is Pope Boniface VIII. He sought political domination for himself and the papacy of the time. He reminds me of Sidious in a lot of ways.

I can probably name more. One that reminds me of a Sith would be Alexander the Great. Not because he was a bad person (although if you were in one of the lands he invaded I'm sure you didn't have kind words for him), but the conquest he led in the name of Greece or Macedonia definitely brings many Sith to mind.
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Aoussar's Avatar


Aoussar
01.12.2013 , 10:05 AM | #7
Saladin - Glorious Jedi. Far ahead of his time, was a superb commander and went beyond the brutalities of the time and valued human life greatly regardless of religion.

Hitler (obviously) a great sith lord. Or Grand Moff, whatever

Hector the Horsetamer - a great Jedi as well. He was just and righteous and a great combatant.

Bird_of_Thunder's Avatar


Bird_of_Thunder
01.12.2013 , 10:08 AM | #8
Jedi - Charles "The Hammer" Martel. A warrior who lead the French in the Battle of Tours in order to preserve Christianity in Western Europe. If Tours had been lost, then Christianity would've died out.

Jedi - King Richard the Lionheart. He lead the Third Crusade and scored many victories for Europe. Although he didn't succeed in his crusade, he reached a treaty with Saladin that allowed the Christians to peacefully enter Jerusalem.

Jedi - Perseus. Conqueror of Medusa and the Kraken in Greek mythology, he examples bravery and an undying will to succeed. No matter what the hardship, Perseus defeated two feared demons of mythology, and returned a hero.

Jedi - Hector of Troy. He was a valiant and noble warrior, Troy's greatest champion, and a peace-loving man. When he saw his home being invaded, he realized that he must fight to keep Troy safe. He died an honorable death at the hands of Achilles.


Sith - Ghengis Khan. Wanted world domination, and came pretty close. The Monghol Empire was pretty big and powerful.

Sith - Osman I of the Ottoman Empire. Conqueror, warrior, leader, only some of the words to describe him. He lead the Ottomans in conquering Constantinople, capital of the Byzantine Empire. A fierce warrior, Osman preferred to lead from the front.

Sith - Alexander the Great. Not because he was bad, but because many of the people of the conquered countries would see him as bad. Basileus of Macedon, Hegemon of the Hellanic League, Shahanshah of Persia, Pharaoh of Egypt, Lord of Asia, Alexander has been called all of these. He was a conqueror, and great one at that. He held one of the biggest empires in history, and he will be remembered throughout time.
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Aoussar's Avatar


Aoussar
01.12.2013 , 11:02 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Bird_of_Thunder View Post
Jedi - Charles "The Hammer" Martel. A warrior who lead the French in the Battle of Tours in order to preserve Christianity in Western Europe. If Tours had been lost, then Christianity would've died out.

Jedi - King Richard the Lionheart. He lead the Third Crusade and scored many victories for Europe. Although he didn't succeed in his crusade, he reached a treaty with Saladin that allowed the Christians to peacefully enter Jerusalem.

Jedi - Perseus. Conqueror of Medusa and the Kraken in Greek mythology, he examples bravery and an undying will to succeed. No matter what the hardship, Perseus defeated two feared demons of mythology, and returned a hero.

Jedi - Hector of Troy. He was a valiant and noble warrior, Troy's greatest champion, and a peace-loving man. When he saw his home being invaded, he realized that he must fight to keep Troy safe. He died an honorable death at the hands of Achilles.
Can't see how being a crusader is Jedi-like. It's more towards the Sith ends. They invaded and killed thousands. Yeah, the Sarracens weren't any better (for some parts), but at least Saladin didn't kill others because they believed in something else which his counterpart did. The crusaders are arguably like modern day Al-Qaeda to the western world.
I agree with everything else; Hector and Charles Martel. Although Perseus probably isn't a historical person in the same sense as the others.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
01.12.2013 , 11:26 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Aoussar View Post
Can't see how being a crusader is Jedi-like. It's more towards the Sith ends. They invaded and killed thousands. Yeah, the Sarracens weren't any better (for some parts), but at least Saladin didn't kill others because they believed in something else which his counterpart did. The crusaders are arguably like modern day Al-Qaeda to the western world.
I agree with everything else; Hector and Charles Martel. Although Perseus probably isn't a historical person in the same sense as the others.
The crusades were a little more complicated. (The truth resists simplicity.) I guess we can't discuss it in detail. But Saladin and Richard didn't start it, they joined an already ongoing war. So it is possible that both were Jedi-like persons who happened to be born on different sides. (But both commited cruelties too.)
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall