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I do not agree with the inclusion of SGRs.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Suggestion Box
I do not agree with the inclusion of SGRs.
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Kahotep's Avatar


Kahotep
01.11.2013 , 10:55 AM | #401
Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
People seem to fail to understand one basic thing about development.

Money is a Finite Resource.

It does not matter if there are different teams in charge of divergent facets of development.

Any $ allocated to one department for a specific project is $ not allocated to another.

The argument that SGRA does not detract from other development cycles is fundamentally wrong.

We can debate as to the significance of that allocation and what specifically it detracts from, but you people hiding behind this particular strawman need to give it up.

The argument that because a small number of players what something, then NO development time should be allocated to it is petty and mean.

Is it not fundamentally fairer to say we should have time allocated in proportion to the proportion of people asking for it?

Altyrell's Avatar


Altyrell
01.11.2013 , 10:55 AM | #402
Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
People seem to fail to understand one basic thing about development.

Money is a Finite Resource.

It does not matter if there are different teams in charge of divergent facets of development.

Any $ allocated to one department for a specific project is $ not allocated to another.

The argument that SGRA does not detract from other development cycles is fundamentally wrong.

We can debate as to the significance of that allocation and what specifically it detracts from, but you people hiding behind this particular strawman need to give it up.
And you are making it seem like the overall budget is like $2,000 and by them taking time to include SGR NPC Flirts, which as stated, is a Small Fraction of the overall Rise of the Hutt Cartel Expansion. You & others who keep pointing it out seem to be implying that by them doing that, that it took $1,999 out of the $2,000 Budget.

NOTE = I am not saying that the Budget was $2 Grand or that SGRA's takes $1,999 to create, though I would be shocked by the coincidence if I was actually correct on how much it ended up costing, but I used those two prices as an example of how it seems that those that are saying that SGRA's should have continued to sit on the bloody back burner for another 2 or 3+ years are conveying that them taking the time to add SGRA Flirts which would be an approximate equivalent of 5% of the overall Expansion caused them to spend the majority of the Expansion Budget on just that one Feature.

Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
Any $ allocated to one department for a specific project is $ not allocated to another.
Oh, you mean like them allocating money to the department that was set up specifically for the Secret Space Project and not allocating any of that money to other departments. Allocating $ to SGRA's will not be the only sole reason that any other project got put onto the Back Burner. Cause if you or anyone else were to say that them adding in the SGR Flirts caused them to not release the SSSP are really wrong and completely exaggerating things.

Kahotep's Avatar


Kahotep
01.11.2013 , 10:59 AM | #403
I'm beginning to suspect the real motive of the people speaking in this thread against SGR - no not that one.

I suspect they are the kind of people who are not happy with dev time being spent on a feature they have no interest in and are using the old, Argumentum ad populum device to try to delay it.

-IceHawk-'s Avatar


-IceHawk-
01.11.2013 , 11:02 AM | #404
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthZak View Post
It isnt about what laws theyre bound to, I never said that so please dont put words into my mouth.
I was aiming at what the humane/social standard was regarding SGR's in the countries that this game is played in (more specifically the "Western" countries)
So you made it into politics, not me.
I didnt attempt anything, I think I made it quite clear that you consider this as a US issue when this is a worldwide game with players from all over the world.
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding in which you fail to see how the concept of "humane/social standard" is merely another way of saying socio-political norms, ergo political in nature.

So yes, broaching on the political.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthZak View Post
Even if I agreed that still leaves Juhani. And if you are arguing something like this, is there ever room for SGR's in the EU or even the new movies? Youre saying "It hasnt been done in the passed so it shouldnt happen now" then interspecies relations shouldve never happened either and theyre everywhere
You know, I cannot seem to find the post in which I stated that particular point.

Enlighten me, please.

Quote: Originally Posted by DarthZak View Post
Switching back to ToS discussions is fine with me
Sounds good.

Out of curiosity, how does one engage in a pro/anti- SGRA discussion in SW:TOR without resorting to social, political, et al concerns?

SGRA exists in exactly two places in all of C-Canon.
So while it exists it is also on the far end of rare, insofar as the current canon is concerned.

Also, why would spending time and money to put a token SGRA-flirt option into an already limited expansion be a priority?

-IceHawk-'s Avatar


-IceHawk-
01.11.2013 , 11:03 AM | #405
Quote: Originally Posted by Kahotep View Post
I'm beginning to suspect the real motive of the people speaking in this thread against SGR - no not that one.

I suspect they are the kind of people who are not happy with dev time being spent on a feature they have no interest in and are using the old, Argumentum ad populum device to try to delay it.
I would say you are half correct.
I highly doubt anything is being delayed and considering what Bioware is, the forums could literally be in unison and against SGRA and they would still include it. Also, I doubt most of the forums understand what an Argumentum ad populum is without opening a new browser for google...

Altyrell's Avatar


Altyrell
01.11.2013 , 11:07 AM | #406
Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
Also, why would spending time and money to put a token SGRA-flirt option into an already limited expansion be a priority?
Ok, then why should an equally "token" size feature be more of a priority then SGRA's? But to answer your question, because those that have been waiting for the SGRA's to be added had to wait over 1 year of game time and more then that when the development time gets added. And don't say that Space People had been waiting an equal amount of time because Same Gender Romances and Space Combat are no where near the same thing.

Not saying that you would've brought up Space Combat, but I was simply using it as an example.

-IceHawk-'s Avatar


-IceHawk-
01.11.2013 , 11:17 AM | #407
It should not be nor have I ever claimed otherwise.
Items that I have listed in the past that should be given priority over SGRA-content include basic Client Optimization, Known Bug Fixes, PVP-Balance Patches, and the extension of existing individual class storylines. (and if we get really wild, perhaps some attention to Crafting Professions and the RE-issues)

Same-Gender Romance Arcs, an expansion of Space Combat, new Mini-Games, New Companions, et al exist in a non-prioritized list of future content that Bioware should get to eventually, but not at the expense of fixing what we have.

Quite frankly I think the inclusion of an SGRA flirt option is little more than token gesture of accommodation to this highly vocal and oftentimes aggressive pro-SGRA community. I also find it rather interesting that its mention, and the subsequent controversy it sparked on the forums, just happened to coincide with the complaints over Makeb's cost and other content.

But of course, Bioware never times its statements for the purpose of changing the course of debate (DA3 I am looking at you)...

Altyrell's Avatar


Altyrell
01.11.2013 , 11:21 AM | #408
Quote: Originally Posted by -IceHawk- View Post
and the extension of existing individual class storylines.

Bioware should get to eventually, but not at the expense of fixing what we have.
Then you don't want SGRA's to ever be added then if you want them to constantly take the backseat to that. Do I want more Chapters to be added, sure but not at the expense of other features. And since no MMO ever has everything 100% fixed, SGRA's and everything else will end up never getting added.

Why force things to take a backseat when they very well can be created AND added along side each other?

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
01.11.2013 , 11:28 AM | #409
Quote: Originally Posted by Altyrell View Post
Uh, this Game is Rated T for TEEN using the ESRB Game Rating, not EC (Early Childhood), E (Everyone) or E10 (Everyone 10+). T for Teen is 13+ so stop with TOR being aimed at "kids" cause this day & age, 13+ already know about sex & stuff. Also, SGRA's WILL NOT INCREASE the Game Rating NOR does it mean it should be. SGRA's can be added without making it "Adult Oriented" any more so then the Romance Arcs that we currently have do.

Also, you talk about others supposedly pushing their Agendas, um isn't that exactly what you, yourself, is trying to do?
I'm not advocating for something a small majority wants added to a game, so I'm not pushing a agenda.
"Equality is a perversion of the natural order!…It binds the strong to the weak. They [the weak] become anchors that drag the exceptional down to mediocrity. Individuals destined and deserving of greatness have it denied them.
-Darth Bane

Altyrell's Avatar


Altyrell
01.11.2013 , 11:34 AM | #410
Quote: Originally Posted by Pvtcarnage View Post
I'm not advocating for something a small majority wants added to a game, so I'm not pushing a agenda.
Actually you are, you are advocating for something to not get added. That, is an agenda, that you are pushing.