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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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MoobooMagoo's Avatar


MoobooMagoo
01.11.2013 , 05:20 AM | #5181
Quote: Originally Posted by SelinaK View Post
Umm, this is the worst excuse I have ever read yet, the obvious solution here to make such cutscenes not look weird would be to not limit the height of all female characters to a head shorter than male ones in the first place. There's absolutely no reason for that other than trying to enforce the stereotype that all men are taller than all women which is simply not true. It's very damn annoying that the tallest, amazon-like, female character is actually.... A full head shorter than the tall male one.

Neither are "the norm", obviously, so why the hell put in that limit other than sexism.
Umm...that isn't a stereotype, it is scientific fact.

At least it is with Earth humans, and I'm assuming Star Wars humans are the same
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Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.11.2013 , 05:39 AM | #5182
Quote: Originally Posted by MoobooMagoo View Post
Umm...that isn't a stereotype, it is scientific fact.

At least it is with Earth humans, and I'm assuming Star Wars humans are the same
Yes, but when the scientific fact is used to passive or micro-aggressively tell people how they're supposed to look, then you have a problem. Also height restrictions are part of "ideal woman" stereotypes (as well as "ideal man" stereotypes - Tom Cruise has to use boxes and such because he's 5'6" and therefore shorter than most other leads, including female leads who are often wearing 3-4" heels).

There are women who are over 6' and it used to be that these women would be "treated" for their height when they were growing girls, in the belief that if they were taller than most men, no one would want to marry them. Same thing happened to short boys.

Yes, taller women are somewhat rare, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be represented.

I should mention, though, that I think all the female models in this game have issues, and that height restrictions are only one of them.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.11.2013 , 06:24 AM | #5183
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Yes, but when the scientific fact is used to passive or micro-aggressively tell people how they're supposed to look, then you have a problem. Also height restrictions are part of "ideal woman" stereotypes (as well as "ideal man" stereotypes - Tom Cruise has to use boxes and such because he's 5'6" and therefore shorter than most other leads, including female leads who are often wearing 3-4" heels).

There are women who are over 6' and it used to be that these women would be "treated" for their height when they were growing girls, in the belief that if they were taller than most men, no one would want to marry them. Same thing happened to short boys.

Yes, taller women are somewhat rare, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be represented.

I should mention, though, that I think all the female models in this game have issues, and that height restrictions are only one of them.
I think that of both genders models myself (having issues). The problem isn't that they went for the ideal (because they didn't...or else we wouldnt have body 4).

The problem is TOR's charater customization just sucks And even if it was way more awesome, it would likely not do something people would then complain about. For instance, I can't think of one good character customization MMO that would make the body 4 male a possibility.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.11.2013 , 06:35 AM | #5184
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
I think that of both genders models myself (having issues). The problem isn't that they went for the ideal (because they didn't...or else we wouldnt have body 4).
I'm not male nor an artist, so I haven't studied the male form in any sort of depth to have much of an informed opinion of it, though I will say that the heads always look too big on male Body 1. Male Body 4, though, is muscle - not aesthetic muscle, really, like perhaps Body 2 might have, but practical muscle, likely from having a more physical and weight based fighting style (certain types of wrestling, perhaps?).

Character customisation in this game is very... simplistic. In my head my Sorcerer and Warrior have very different body types, despite both being Body 2 in-game: Sorcerer is more curvy and carries more weight in the hips (kind of like me, ALL my weight is in my hips/butt) and my Warrior has a leaner, more muscled look.

I don't want to say "athletic" because such a look doesn't exist.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.11.2013 , 06:49 AM | #5185
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I'm not male nor an artist, so I haven't studied the male form in any sort of depth to have much of an informed opinion of it, though I will say that the heads always look too big on male Body 1. Male Body 4, though, is muscle - not aesthetic muscle, really, like perhaps Body 2 might have, but practical muscle, likely from having a more physical and weight based fighting style (certain types of wrestling, perhaps?).

Character customisation in this game is very... simplistic. In my head my Sorcerer and Warrior have very different body types, despite both being Body 2 in-game: Sorcerer is more curvy and carries more weight in the hips (kind of like me, ALL my weight is in my hips/butt) and my Warrior has a leaner, more muscled look.

I don't want to say "athletic" because such a look doesn't exist.
If we go by that page, then the body types as they are, are varied enough, and any complaints about them are they are just not physically appealing to those who don't like them. Since theres differences in build and in height.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.11.2013 , 06:59 AM | #5186
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
If we go by that page, then the body types as they are, are varied enough, and any complaints about them are they are just not physically appealing to those who don't like them. Since theres differences in build and in height.
What are you talking about? I was linking that image purely for the reason I stated I was linking that image - the term "athletic" does not accurately describe or demonstrate actual athletes and their bodies.

If anything, those images demonstrate a need for greater character customisation, particularly if one wants to have a realistic and representative system.

Yes, people ARE going to make characters them deem attractive to them - something you seem to be vehemently against a lot of them time, because god forbid the player actually want to look at their character. But what people deem attractive is different because we are all individuals. Currently the body types available in this game feature six that follow conventional/mainstream rules for being "attractive" and two that are anomalous to that (being Body 3 and 4 for female and male respectively) - that doesn't mean that everyone likes them, merely that everyone has to choose from them.

And height? Three of the women in those images are over 6 foot and others are close to it - something which is not demonstrated in this game.

Actually, you know what? I'm not even doing to bother anymore.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.11.2013 , 02:37 PM | #5187
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
What are you talking about? I was linking that image purely for the reason I stated I was linking that image - the term "athletic" does not accurately describe or demonstrate actual athletes and their bodies.

If anything, those images demonstrate a need for greater character customisation, particularly if one wants to have a realistic and representative system.

Yes, people ARE going to make characters them deem attractive to them - something you seem to be vehemently against a lot of them time, because god forbid the player actually want to look at their character. But what people deem attractive is different because we are all individuals. Currently the body types available in this game feature six that follow conventional/mainstream rules for being "attractive" and two that are anomalous to that (being Body 3 and 4 for female and male respectively) - that doesn't mean that everyone likes them, merely that everyone has to choose from them.

And height? Three of the women in those images are over 6 foot and others are close to it - something which is not demonstrated in this game.

Actually, you know what? I'm not even doing to bother anymore.
o.O I never once said don't make a character that doesn't look good to you. When have I ever said that?

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
01.11.2013 , 03:15 PM | #5188
I'd like them to plug in a slider system. Height, Body type (endo-, meso-, ectomorph), body weight, muscle mass. That'd side-step this whole argument by giving people considerably more variation; if you end up with an 'idealised' form then that's your doing, not the game's. Hell, a Sims 3 style system would work.

And, you know, some furniture that works.

Oh, and full SGRAs.
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Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.11.2013 , 03:37 PM | #5189
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Oh, and full SGRAs.
You'd think those would be in already, what with opposite gender romances being a thing since launch. Funny how discrimination works out.

neohunterunico's Avatar


neohunterunico
01.11.2013 , 05:43 PM | #5190
I think it is important to respect everyones options in regards to this. What some people like can make others uncomfortable. The game can have it's options as longest nothing is impossed or forced on to players. I would personally would like the option to make my companion (pets) weather they are homosexual or straight. That way no awkward dialogue is going to occur. This way everyone can have the Star Wars experience they want to have and not ruin other players experience. You want to make you character straight or not.....just to have that option is all that I would ask. Also more customizations avaliable for companions early in the game would be kool. Keeping tasteful for everyone of course.