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How much HP for endgame content?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
How much HP for endgame content?

steave's Avatar


steave
01.07.2013 , 07:54 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The *only* thing you've said that is even remotely true is that mitigation isn't useful against unmitigatable sources of damage, such as on Kephess the Undying where *so* much of his damage is F/T. Of course, you're overstating the important of it since that's the *only* fight where you actually have to worry about it
"You only have to worry about it in the hardest fight available in this game atm".
I used to agree with you and KeyBoardNinja Kitru, but since EC NiM, I've changed my mind. You may end up slightly better off in most fights in the current end game with the mitigation stacking, but what you should optimize for is the hardest of them - the rest you should be able to handle anyway.
For the same reason that you don't consider HM FPs, I don't consider EV/KP (any difficulty) or EC/TFB SM/HM.

Mitigation is still important ofcourse, but that fight made me switch to 27B mods.

RLWalker's Avatar


RLWalker
01.07.2013 , 10:08 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Talonwk View Post
I personally feel that endurance and secondary stats are equally valuable so I add up endurance and tanking stats on each mod/enhancement and take the highest total and use those. For mods this is typically the "B" mods.
This is what I do. I don't refer to mods as "high endurance/low endurance" - I call them "high willpower/low willpower". What do I need more willpower for anyways? I'll take the ones with the highest endurance + mitigation, which is the same as "low willpower".

Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
If you really what higher HP get endurance augments but mitigation are better.
Endurance augments are the last place to look for more HP. Changing a "high willpower" mod for a "low willpower" mod gives you more points of endurance than you lost in mitigation.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Even with 25k hp, it's going to take in excess of 10 seconds without any healing for a tank to die.
This is very much *not* true on 16-man. The difference in damage on large hitting attacks is usually 2x and sometimes almost 3x compared to 8-man. Time is often much more important on 16-man than efficiency. Even one or two seconds can be crucial.

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Kitru
01.07.2013 , 10:13 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by RLWalker View Post
This is very much *not* true on 16-man.
You'll notice that I specifically said earlier on in the threat that you want ~27k hp in 16man.
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Talonwk's Avatar


Talonwk
01.08.2013 , 04:16 PM | #14
With 16 man content the overhealing inefficiency also needs to be considered. If you take more damage but have a larger health pool you are less likely to be overhealed which actually will increase your healers overall effective HPS to compensate for the increase incoming DPS while also increasing your TTS greater than increases to mitigation do.
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Grumpftard's Avatar


Grumpftard
01.09.2013 , 08:43 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Talonwk View Post
With 16 man content the overhealing inefficiency also needs to be considered. If you take more damage but have a larger health pool you are less likely to be overhealed which actually will increase your healers overall effective HPS to compensate for the increase incoming DPS while also increasing your TTS greater than increases to mitigation do.
HAHAHA!
So the fact that the healers have to spend 10-15% more of their effort and time my way because my Mit is low and health is high is ok. All that extra time wasted on me is acceptable cuz it's not overhealing.
Sure....sounds perfectly logical to me.
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OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
01.09.2013 , 09:44 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
First off, everyone that tells you to stack mitigation stats already knows about diminishing returns. It's not something that escapes our notice. In fact, it's one of the biggest things that has to be considered. Of course, you're also vastly overstating the impact of diminishing returns since it all operates on percentage decreases to damage taken. A 1% increase in defense is worse less when you have the base 5% defense chance than when you have a 30% defense chance (the first is a 1.1% decrease in damage taken and the second is a 1.5% decrease in damage taken; it gets even *bigger* when you get to the higher numbers with Shield and Absorb where 1% more shield at 65% shield chance equates to a 2.9% decrease in unshielded attacks). Diminishing returns doesn't exist to encourage people to stack Endurance; it exists to offset the progressive improvements in performance based on decreasing percentages of incoming damage.
.
So many people don't understand this about tanking stats
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Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
01.10.2013 , 10:52 AM | #17
I'd say 27-30k for endgame content. 25k may not well be enough. Someone in optimized 63's will likely have 27k hp fully stimmed / buffed.

30k is bit overdoing it but not by too much, provided you follow minimum percentages in mitigation to a certain level. Still able to complete all the content this game has to offer.
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Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
01.10.2013 , 11:10 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by RLWalker View Post
Endurance augments are the last place to look for more HP. Changing a "high willpower" mod for a "low willpower" mod gives you more points of endurance than you lost in mitigation.
Ye that's better, still do not want.

Also if anyone feels that they need buffer HP blame your healers. In fact just blame your healers by default, we are used to it.

Maybe for 16 man, but my laptop would melt at 16 man so I dunno.
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Pokupo's Avatar


Pokupo
01.10.2013 , 01:33 PM | #19
Maybe a little off topic, but do you Tanks ever carry around multiple sets of Tank Gear? (or at least pieces that you swap in and out, maybe a different Relic, change a chest piece etc...)

For example:
I am a Damage Sponge - High Hit Point Pool for boss fights that hit hard, but really slow.
Avoidance Set - Multiple weak attacks, mainly Trash type stuff?
Threat Set - sacrifice some tanking stats for more DPS/Threat

I know when I played WoW and Raided, I had about 5 Tanks sets for the above plus for things like Elemental Damage type resistant Gear.

And in Rift I would even switch my spec out during Dungeons/Raids for specific fights as well (really loved my tank that could not be knocked back during a fight).

Or is it mostly just one Tank Spec, one Tank Set of Armour?
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RLWalker's Avatar


RLWalker
01.10.2013 , 02:27 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Pokupo View Post
Maybe a little off topic, but do you Tanks ever carry around multiple sets of Tank Gear? (or at least pieces that you swap in and out, maybe a different Relic, change a chest piece etc...)

For example:
I am a Damage Sponge - High Hit Point Pool for boss fights that hit hard, but really slow.
Avoidance Set - Multiple weak attacks, mainly Trash type stuff?
Threat Set - sacrifice some tanking stats for more DPS/Threat

I know when I played WoW and Raided, I had about 5 Tanks sets for the above plus for things like Elemental Damage type resistant Gear.

And in Rift I would even switch my spec out during Dungeons/Raids for specific fights as well (really loved my tank that could not be knocked back during a fight).

Or is it mostly just one Tank Spec, one Tank Set of Armour?
I do carry around different relics, however the latest round of content has me mostly using the dread guard on use relics.

The on use power relic used to be nice on fights where there was nothing to defend/shield but the changes to tank threat and the higher endurance on dread guard tank relics make this one kind of pointless.

I also carry around war hero relics but I find in EC the on use relics are a lot better. There is a lot of time in every fight where you are either not taking damage or are only taking force/tech attacks. This devalues the static stats of the war hero relics. EC has very predictable phases which makes it easy to take advantage of on use relics.

I personally don't like the absorb proc relic. It's nice, but shielding an attack is already like winning the lottery. Absorbing a little bit more of a relatively small hit doesn't do anything for me.

I will continue to replace each type of relic as they are upgraded to be ready for future content that might make them superior.

I don't keep multiple sets of tank gear. That would be very expensive to maintain and it would siphon gear or crafting materials from other people that need it. With the Tionese/Columi/Rakata tokens it was easier to create multiple sets because chances were good that no one could use it, but now everyone can use the tokens. Any extra gear usually goes to off-specs, alts, recruits. Plus a lot of gear gets reverse engineered even when people need it to better benefit the guild. The relics are a nice way to customize gear without spending a lot of credits.

As an assassin there is not really a lot of choice in spec. You might move a point or two around but it won't make much difference either way.