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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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SelinaK's Avatar


SelinaK
01.10.2013 , 08:59 AM | #5171
Quote: Originally Posted by Wittand View Post
Just to point out DA2 uses gender checks, as does ME3.
For a good romance you need gender checks so that both dialogue and interactions between the toons remainrealistic.
As an example how removing gender checks can lead to physical humour I only need to point to the modded ME2 romances, due to the different height of MShep and FShep all scenes that require interaction look weird ranging from simply bad (Miranda) to hilarious (Thane).
Umm, this is the worst excuse I have ever read yet, the obvious solution here to make such cutscenes not look weird would be to not limit the height of all female characters to a head shorter than male ones in the first place. There's absolutely no reason for that other than trying to enforce the stereotype that all men are taller than all women which is simply not true. It's very damn annoying that the tallest, amazon-like, female character is actually.... A full head shorter than the tall male one.

Neither are "the norm", obviously, so why the hell put in that limit other than sexism.
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QwibQwib's Avatar


QwibQwib
01.10.2013 , 09:25 AM | #5172
With regard to marriage in Skyrim, I thought it broke immersion. The whole marriage thing seemed to stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the game. It seemed cheesy, cliche, and rather pointless. It was, however, inclusive, and also introduced a really OP mechanic: your spouse being a store-owner. Which I was perfectly okay with
"Amor omnibus idem" - "Love is the same for all"

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
01.10.2013 , 09:32 AM | #5173
Quote: Originally Posted by SelinaK View Post
Umm, this is the worst excuse I have ever read yet, the obvious solution here to make such cutscenes not look weird would be to not limit the height of all female characters to a head shorter than male ones in the first place. There's absolutely no reason for that other than trying to enforce the stereotype that all men are taller than all women which is simply not true. It's very damn annoying that the tallest, amazon-like, female character is actually.... A full head shorter than the tall male one.

Neither are "the norm", obviously, so why the hell put in that limit other than sexism.
Thank you! It's sad how those kinds of sexist stereotypes are still part of the game. I also think it's ridiculous how my female characters runs. The male characters run like people do, the female ones run like they've got physical anomalies. If that's meant to be sexy: FAIL.
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

Wittand's Avatar


Wittand
01.10.2013 , 10:05 AM | #5174
Quote: Originally Posted by SelinaK View Post
Umm, this is the worst excuse I have ever read yet, the obvious solution here to make such cutscenes not look weird would be to not limit the height of all female characters to a head shorter than male ones in the first place. There's absolutely no reason for that other than trying to enforce the stereotype that all men are taller than all women which is simply not true. It's very damn annoying that the tallest, amazon-like, female character is actually.... A full head shorter than the tall male one.

Neither are "the norm", obviously, so why the hell put in that limit other than sexism.
You know that the average male is 7-9% taller than the average female right ?
This of course depends slightly on race, and to a bigger extent on environment (the worse living conditions are the smaller the actual difference).

And not all man are taller than all woman, neither in real life nor in the game. Three of the male body-types are smaller than the biggest female in game.

Not to mention that the problem is not who is taller/fatter/ whatever but that there are differences in body type that need to be addressed in any scene that involves touching.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
01.10.2013 , 10:29 AM | #5175
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
It is unfair to compare Skyrim to SWTOR, they are completely different experiences. Not defending Bioware here, but there's a lot more work involved in the romances in SWTOR than there was in Skyrim.
Right, and they've put all of that super duper hard work into OGRA only and haven't done squat for SGRAs, which is the original point.

While it's unfair to compare SWTOR and Skyrim based on quality of romance plot, it is fair to compare how they allotted that specific budget as far as OGRA vs SGRA goes.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.10.2013 , 11:44 AM | #5176
Quote: Originally Posted by Wittand View Post
You know that the average male is 7-9% taller than the average female right ?
This of course depends slightly on race, and to a bigger extent on environment (the worse living conditions are the smaller the actual difference).

And not all man are taller than all woman, neither in real life nor in the game. Three of the male body-types are smaller than the biggest female in game.

Not to mention that the problem is not who is taller/fatter/ whatever but that there are differences in body type that need to be addressed in any scene that involves touching.
Why does any of that need to be addressed? Is there some scene where a smaller character makes out with a taller one, and so gets kissed on the head instead of the lips?

If not, I don't see the problem.

Also, averages and majority are just that. Doesn't mean there aren't exceptions.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.10.2013 , 11:47 AM | #5177
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
Right, and they've put all of that super duper hard work into OGRA only and haven't done squat for SGRAs, which is the original point.

While it's unfair to compare SWTOR and Skyrim based on quality of romance plot, it is fair to compare how they allotted that specific budget as far as OGRA vs SGRA goes.
Not really. They're two different games. They don't have to put the same amount of effort into it if they don't want to. It's up to you as a player to either accept it and play the game or quit.

Wittand's Avatar


Wittand
01.10.2013 , 08:40 PM | #5178
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Why does any of that need to be addressed? Is there some scene where a smaller character makes out with a taller one, and so gets kissed on the head instead of the lips?

If not, I don't see the problem.

Also, averages and majority are just that. Doesn't mean there aren't exceptions.
I have not completed any romance in SW:Tor since I wait for the SGRAs, so I don´t know how much interaction actually happens.
But if interaction happens, like it does in other BioWare games, differences in the various models need to be addressed. In cut-scenes simply forcing a scene that is intended for body-type A also to play if the player avatar has body-type B can lead to rather silly cut-scenes (the ME2 examples can be found on Youtube).
And this does not only apply to physical interactions but also to verbal ones. To bring an example from DA:O Zevran will bring up a female Warden´s eyes or a male Warden´s strong hands in a banter with Morrigan if the player romances Zevran. The same is true for all other BioWare romances. To switch a romance from OG to SG more is needed than to delete the s from she and the wo from woman.

Infir's Avatar


Infir
01.10.2013 , 09:53 PM | #5179
Unless they were written as gender-neutral in the first place, which personally I'd have no problem with. But of course that's a moot point as far as SWTOR goes.
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stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
01.10.2013 , 10:06 PM | #5180
Quote: Originally Posted by Infir View Post
Unless they were written as gender-neutral in the first place, which personally I'd have no problem with. But of course that's a moot point as far as SWTOR goes.
I'm sure some parts are gender neutral (beyond pronoun swapping) and some parts aren't (and would need a bit more stuff changed around).

I don't think it's as easy or as hard as some are making it.
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