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Devs/Mods: Make a Choice

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Devs/Mods: Make a Choice

Pvtcarnage's Avatar


Pvtcarnage
01.09.2013 , 05:43 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
CC in itself dumbs down the gameplay IMO...

CC is rarely used situationally(except for HB maybe). And with the move "not to punish overlapping stuns", it's going off all over the place; all the time. It's hard to worry about a teammate getting stunlocked, when you got a Smasher in your face that just rooted you.
If your playing against people not using it situationally then they probably suck and whats the big deal they should be easy.........I'm guessing it's "hard" when you play against people who understand how to use it. and in turn want it dumbed down so it's not "hard"
It is almost an "oh ****" button and takes skill out of the game. While I would fully admit that is somewhat of a generalization, the whole point of PvP is to put the control in the players own hands whether its offense or defense, outnumbered or have an advantage. CC is more of a "I can't stop you, so stop moving for awhile" type of move. Most PvP games don't have that, even if they are objective based...

Call it oh Sh^t button if you like but you have on to, and who knows how to utilize it best for the situation wins.......... and what does it matter what other games have or do not? that's a silly argument.
but sure it makes it easier
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lensmo's Avatar


lensmo
01.09.2013 , 07:15 PM | #22
I was about to post about the resolve system, then I noticed this. Probably the best post on the forums in a long time!
Sincerely,
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L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
01.09.2013 , 07:17 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Pvtcarnage View Post
but sure it makes it easier
IDK Carn...

The with the vast quantity of CC available, there is not a need to use it as a tactic currently though. Maybe its just the hard/soft stuns I got a problem with, but CC is the main culprit of PvP being in this miserable state (along with Rank que barriers). With the type of change I propose, it will increase its use as a tactic.

By 'hard", I mean it's frustrating seeing your healer g-banged by two smashers while you are sitting there stunned, and most of the time, you are almost dead before the stun wears off.. I am not trying to compare other PvP games per se, but what makes PvP "fun" is the fact that players are 100% responsible for their production and skill level. They are never not(I know; double negative) in control of their toon. You really can't even judge a player's "skill" with all the CC flying around. I used Street Fighter as an example because I am "skilled" at that game (well in my circle of friends; but was ranked fairly high in the online rankings in the latest version). I knew my toon and others toons and opponents (yes, even online opponents through rankings) sooo well, that I knew if I did what I was suppose to do, I would be "unstoppable". CC is counter intuitive to this type of notion, competitveness, and teamwork, whether a tactical CC or not.

I know I might be dating myself with the whole Street Fighter thing. I been "around the PvP block", and CC is bad design in PvP as a whole. Don't get rid of it, just adjust it. Then talk class balance...


Thanks for keeping it real as well. Good shtuff, here....
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Rincewend's Avatar


Rincewend
01.09.2013 , 07:30 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
As I look at these airwaves daily, I always see stuff popping up like "nerf this", "buff that", etc, etc. While I try to contribute constructively most of the time, many get frustrated enough with the plight of PvP that constructive things are like needles in a haystack, and the real issue gets masked in a "vortex of horsecrap"(courtesy of Bob Brenly). Simply put, I am requesting this:

Make a change in the resolve mechanic/CC first, before your do any rebalancing.
Whether it's bubble stun, "wrecking ball" maras, "chainstunning/stunlock", OPERATIVES(!), or CC in general, the Resolve mechanic needs to be addressed, again. And, if applied correctly, most of this might actually go away...

This is how I see it (a short history of SWTOR):
Operatives and others were adjusted because of "stunlocking"/having too much CC- Instead adjusting the CC affect, you nerf the DPS. (?)

People still complained about "stunlocking"- You adjust more DPS and/or change or downright remove procs in some cases. Changing entire playstyles/specs. (?)

Complaints about Maras/Sents ensued. Instead of adjusting them, you adjust the entire system to be more "cc friendly" to be able to "stop" them. (?)

Pigeon-hole classes into certain specs/ACs because of the above actions (See bubble stun & JK/SW populations). (?)


The CC in this game is WAY too strong/abundant... Always has been. Every class shouldn't have two or three stuns, every class shouldn't have multiple roots, etc, etc. It's too late... They have them now. So what to do?

Since "reverting" is rarely, if ever, done, I won't suggest reverting the elimination of "penalization" for overlapping stuns/cc. Instead I say:

Change the rate of decay of the resolve timer: While in-combat the rate should be slower than it currently is. Far too often the usefulness of full Resolve, is minor compared to the CC available in a WZ. The gap needs to be closed. Not a ton, but some...

Change when the resolve decay is actually active: Any switch to out-of-combat should STOP any resolve decay. This would eliminate any "stun, stun, stun, dead",........ respawn,.........."stun, stun, stun, dead" routine

Adjust classes in the new system: Ops, Merc, Sorc and for god's sake, keep the burst(Smash) in the game. Just give other classes the means to do it as well. That is what makes WZ's dynamic, Situational Burst, not CC's.




I know this will probably end up going by the wayside, but as I was making my change suggestion for Consu/Inquiz to have a viable alternative to bubble stun, I came to the realization that CC has A TON to do with the "nerf this"; "buff that" that the PvP forum is.

You really can't balance any of the classes unless this is more reasonable first.

TL;DR
Please change resolve, or at least re-examine it...

PS: Please sign or bump, if you think this needs to happen ASAP... Part of the "vortex of horsecap" is the fact that people rather argue over what's OP'd, than keeping a thread like this one going. Thanks in advance....
Some seem to get off topic so I thought I would quote this back up, great post, just wish they would listen.

DarkSaberMaster's Avatar


DarkSaberMaster
01.09.2013 , 07:38 PM | #25
Great post. Good and constructive. But we all know the devs don't give a **** and won't read it. And even if they did, they won't respond or do anything with the info except say, "We are looking into it, but our metrics say it is working as intended."
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Rincewend's Avatar


Rincewend
01.09.2013 , 08:38 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkSaberMaster View Post
Great post. Good and constructive. But we all know the devs don't give a **** and won't read it. And even if they did, they won't respond or do anything with the info except say, "We are looking into it, but our metrics say it is working as intended as everyone is still buying cartel market items, making us all our money."
I fixed that for you. Look at the CS area, the only thing that gets a fast reply that is not a auto messege is, Cartel market related or getting you into the game to spend you cartel market credits.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
01.09.2013 , 08:46 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Rincewend View Post
I fixed that for you. Look at the CS area, the only thing that gets a fast reply that is not a auto messege is, Cartel market related or getting you into the game to spend you cartel market credits.
yeah, it sucks.

not to detract any further from the OP (which was good btw), but have any of you seen the "outrage" in the general discussion forum? the appearance of two of the cartel pack armor sets got fixed, and people are coming out of the woodwork whining about how they want it set back to the old, bugged appearance.

so with this totally selfish whining, what happens? like 5 or 6 dev posts, from 2 different devs. i havent been counting, but how many posts by devs have there been in this forum over the last 6 months? how about 1 year? mabye 10?

PvP related bugs are allowed to stand for weeks before they get hotfixed. i bet this stupid cartel thing is patched right up by next tuesday. its mind bottling. if i didnt like the Star Wars lore so much id already be long gone from this game.

but, i digress. back on topic: fix resolve plox

rhakoth's Avatar


rhakoth
01.09.2013 , 08:59 PM | #28
+1 OP

I was listening to an TORWars podcast with the PVP lead (Hickman from memory) and he stated that:

A - resolves was too complicated to explain and required a 10 min conversation on how it works.

B - that it was an issue that resolve was so hard to explain.

C - that he felt stuns weren't the issue with equally geared players and TTK was fairly good in these circumstances with the current amount of stuns.

I agree that resolve is a good idea and lets players use advanced tactics to out play others; however the current itteration is really ineffective. Anything that takes 10 mins to explain to someone is really not a mechanic that should be baseline and understood by all imo. DR in WoW is simple. The more you receive a certain type of CC, the less you are affected by it (50% reduction). Now all you have to do is learn the types and that's it, you're set to manipulate it to your advantage. Executing it to your full advantage is supposed to be the hardest part.

Shatterstar's Avatar


Shatterstar
01.09.2013 , 09:14 PM | #29
/signed to the original post.

I actually came here to make a similar post, but I might as well just sign this one. With the current state of CC in this game, our stun-breaker needs to be on a 15 second CD, or we need to have 3 more of them (please, no more buttons) to be effective. Resolve is in-effective, and there seems to be far to much that bypasses it all-together. It is frustrating to get cc-locked and not being free until your re-spawn. There is just too many ways to root and stun people, and not enough ways to break free of it. This issue persists through pvp in the game, it is not just a " level 50 problem".

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
01.09.2013 , 09:37 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by rhakoth View Post
+1 OP

I was listening to an TORWars podcast with the PVP lead (Hickman from memory) and he stated that:

A - resolves was too complicated to explain and required a 10 min conversation on how it works.

B - that it was an issue that resolve was so hard to explain.

C - that he felt stuns weren't the issue with equally geared players and TTK was fairly good in these circumstances with the current amount of stuns.
/facepalm.... Dear Lord.....
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango