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To all those demanding for more story content...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
To all those demanding for more story content...

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
01.09.2013 , 06:39 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
You've got that horizontal/vertical thing the other way around.
I do? The horizontal/vertical comment was related to this (sorry for not properly quoting it):
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
Pazaak is content. Pet battles is content. Holo-chess, swoop-races, pvp-space battles, and more warzones is content, and none of these things with interfere with our chances of getting new classes.
Creating minigames such as these is horizontal expansion - they exist alongside other content, often being available from very early on, and do not depend on each other. You don't have to complete five pet battles to take parts in a swoop race, or win a holo-chess tournament to get to play pazaak. There's no sense of progression from one minigame to another. Sometimes each minigame might have its own progression, but it's very shallow. The existing minigame, space missions, has basically five different levels (from no upgrades to grades 1, 3, 5 and 7) and even then you don't progress through them by doing space missions but rather by playing the actual game.

Storylines can be both horizontal and vertical content. They're horizontal if they involve the creation of a new class that has its own story for the existing levels in the game. SW:TOR is unique in that it does have different storylines for each class; most MMORPGs have at most one storyline per faction, and sometimes not even that. However, there's also the issue of limited options for creating new and interesting classes, as noted in my earlier post.

Storylines are vertical if they continue the stories for existing classes. The upcoming Rise of the Hutt Cartel expansion does this. You have to complete chapters 0-3 before you can get into RotHC, which is chapter 4. This allows you to use your existing characters on which you've already spent tens or hundreds of hours of time and that have developed a personality (if you're a role-player).

I'm not saying that there should not be new classes, if they can be made different and interesting. Personally, I like the story content either way. My argument was that I'll rather keep and expand the long and involved progression through the main game than have a dozen new mini-games with little or no progression.

And as a side note:
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
Yes, I do. Read the post before yours.
I was actually writing said post while you wrote yours, so I hadn't seen it yet.

Machine-Elf's Avatar


Machine-Elf
01.09.2013 , 07:05 AM | #22
Horizontal (deriving from the word horizon—from left to right) suggests progression on a linear, structured path. For instance, us players right now have been given content from 1-50. Giving us more of the same by, for instance, adding 5 more levels , only EXTENDS said content, thus branding it as an horizontal approach to game development.

Verticality (which has an upwards connotation) denotes a building on top of what already exists, like raising a skyscraper. Adding mini-games and new systems would not extend the game, but build upon it.

Get it?

Fornix's Avatar


Fornix
01.09.2013 , 07:10 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
Horizontal (deriving from the word horizon—from left to right) suggests progression on a linear, structured path. For instance, us players right now have been given content from 1-50. Giving us more of the same by, for instance, adding 5 more levels , only EXTENDS said content, thus branding it as an horizontal approach to game development.

Verticality (which has an upwards connotation) denotes a building on top of what already exists, like raising a skyscraper. Adding mini-games and new systems would not extend the game, but build upon it.

Get it?
Which is completely in contrast to as to how the terms are generally used in most MMO's, where vertical progression indicates the expanding difference between players (whether that be gear wise, level-wise through expansions, etc) and horizontal progression indicates addition of content whilst maintaining the same level on players (e.g. addition of gear with minimal vertical stat increase, addition of new content for the same level, etc).
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Machine-Elf's Avatar


Machine-Elf
01.09.2013 , 07:15 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Fornix View Post
Which is completely in contrast to as to how the terms are generally used in most MMO's, where vertical progression indicates the expanding difference between players (whether that be gear wise, level-wise through expansions, etc) and horizontal progression indicates addition of content whilst maintaining the same level on players (e.g. addition of gear with minimal vertical stat increase, addition of new content for the same level, etc).
Well, if that's true then it's just one of the many MMO tropes which make little to no sense.

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
01.09.2013 , 08:30 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
Horizontal (deriving from the word horizon—from left to right) suggests progression on a linear, structured path. For instance, us players right now have been given content from 1-50. Giving us more of the same by, for instance, adding 5 more levels , only EXTENDS said content, thus branding it as an horizontal approach to game development.

Verticality (which has an upwards connotation) denotes a building on top of what already exists, like raising a skyscraper. Adding mini-games and new systems would not extend the game, but build upon it.

Get it?
It seems we use different definitions for those words, which is why I tried to explain what I meant. I can't find any official definitions right now, so let's forget those for a moment.

I disagree that minigames would build upon the main game. At best there's a tenuous connection. With pet battles I guess you mean battles fought with the vanity pets, much like pokemon? (As opposed to companions.) Those are just eyecandy in the main game. In swoop racing we could, umm, race with the speeders we have? Except they're not really swoop bikes, and again the connection is purely aesthetical. Do we even have anything pazaak-related in the game that players can interact with in any way?

To truly build upon the existing game, you'd have to make the player character's stats, equipment and/or skills relevant somehow. It could be something where you have to destroy targets within a limited time, or defend an outpost against ever more difficult waves of enemies. It could incorporate platformer elements like some of the datacrons on city planets. But if your character could be replaced with a dummy, I won't call it building upon the existing game.

_Darkstar's Avatar


_Darkstar
01.09.2013 , 08:37 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
I appreciate that. But what I'm saying is that if the player base keeps demanding for more story content, new classes will never come.
I couldn't care less if new classes never come. I want story content for the class I already play!
I couldn't care less if new operations never come. I want story content for the class I already play!
I couldn't care less if new planets never come. I want story content for the class I already play!
I couldn't care less if new levels never come. I want story content for the class I already play!
I couldn't care less if new warzones never come. I want story content for the class I already play!
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sstanks's Avatar


sstanks
01.09.2013 , 08:38 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
The switch from 8 class stories to 2 factional "class" stories with Makeb should have helped them with this, it cut down the story content they had to produce by 75%.
it's not really a switch since this was probably planned from launch. Remember Makeb was originally supposed to come out in the first year.

They haven't said they are never doing class stories again. just not with Makeb.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
01.09.2013 , 09:01 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post
I appreciate that. But what I'm saying is that if the player base keeps demanding for more story content, new classes will never come.
The "player base" isn't demanding more story...several people are, not the whole base. I don't care if we ever get more "stoty" - stories end.
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Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
01.09.2013 , 09:24 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by sstanks View Post
it's not really a switch since this was probably planned from launch. Remember Makeb was originally supposed to come out in the first year.

They haven't said they are never doing class stories again. just not with Makeb.

Personally I don't think it was, certainly they may have realised it was going to be hard to deliver 8 class stories, and that would have become clearer and clearer once the game went Live.

But personally I doubt such a decision was taken until after 1.2 went Live at the earliest, it was from then that they started genuinely preparing for F2P (changing Makeb from a content patch to an adventure pack etc.).
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
01.09.2013 , 09:49 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Machine-Elf View Post

So which is it? Perfect what we have currently in place, or demand for more of the same?
Umm, what we already have failed, and failed hard. Doing more of the same and expecting a different result.... well, there's an old analogy about that.

Story content is nice, but has clearly shown it is not a viable alternative to actual MMO gameplay in an MMO game. Move the "story team" back to making officially solo games and hiring people with actual MMO design experience would be the logical path to take.