Smash doesn't always hit for 6k+, that's mostly reserved for recruit/pve geared targets. I understand that you need to exaggerate the numbers to get bioware to start swinging the nerfbat. It probably does need some adjusting but it's not as bad as people say it is.

Explain this to me:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2v0ba8n.jpg

Explain this to me:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2v0ba8n.jpg

bloodthirst

warzone expertise boost

Explain this to me:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2v0ba8n.jpg

you do realize that expertise bonus cancel out for equally geared players right?

expertise exists to penalize players for using PvE gear in PvP

my spec used to be the "just try coming at me, and you'll be sorry"

these days with vanguards/power techs maras jugs guardians ect, everything apart from agents smuglers,and sages/sorcers, can have their spec instantly identified, with dps jugs their either gonan be in shien form of shiicho form all you gotta do is target them and look at their buffs, same for marauders and sentinals and vanguards and power techs i dotn see why people still complain about it nothing gets done so shut it

you do realize that expertise bonus cancel out for equally geared players right?

 

expertise exists to penalize players for using PvE gear in PvP

I believe he is trying to show that he is not the undergeared guy, and is fact most likely equally geared as the attacker. thus he is wondering why the hit is so big.

As I mentioned above, its most likely due to a bloodthirst and/or the red wz expertise boost and/or tracer missle type debuffs.

happy to help

I believe he is trying to show that he is not the undergeared guy, and is fact most likely equally geared as the attacker. thus he is wondering why the hit is so big.

 

As I mentioned above, its most likely due to a bloodthirst and/or the red wz expertise boost and/or tracer missle type debuffs.

 

happy to help

He said " that's mostly reserved for recruit/pve geared targets". I'm trying to prove it's not.

What I can say (believe or not) is that I was using my Reactive shield at the moment I died by that smash.

He was not under the red WZ expertise boost.

He could have been under the inspiration boost (or whatever it's called on imp side) - it adds 15% to damage for 15 secs. He got lucky; one wild crit doesn't prove anything unless it happens every time.

What's your total health? Did you sit there and let him smash you 4 times?

Try again, I'll take my Snipers DPS any day of the week. If you drop all other stats, you are not going to do anything outside of smash and scream, especially for Juggs/Guard. If they actually could do damage on the level of other DPS classes, they would dominate the damage count at the end of the game, considering the epic smashes, but they rarely do...

 

Why?

Because the "filler" stuff like ravage, slash et. al. are weak compared to the "fillers" of other DPS classes because they have dropped all other stats. Hell they even "miss" sometimes. its ROFL

 

This road that we are on is similar to the same road that led to:

DPS Sage nerf

DPS Op nerf

Adrenal nerf

Relic nerf

Resolve change

 

 

And we all know those were great for this game... Continual dumbing down of the game...

 

 

I try to give you clowns the benefit of the doubt, but alas, the real problem is L2P, even though I gave you/others logical foundations to base arguments on...

 

(Situationally; regardless of resolve) CC break on choke.

CCing on any leaps(unstop spec excluded).

Kiting/rooting; regardless of spec.

Debuff acurracy, since they have little anyway(further decreasing non-force attacks).

Isolate them and keep "pitch relation" (if you don't know what that mean, google it since people here seem to love to point out the obvious OP'dness of Google:D).

Nobody is forcing you to go 0 crit 0 accuracy, you choose to do it because that's how you max damage on your broken ability. Wear normal gear like everyone else and run a different spec. All three of the marauder trees are good, Juggs are the ones who get screwed on dps without smash but they are still very viable tanks. And there's no reason we can't give a buff to vengeance. And Vullesh wins damage every game when he specs rage.

Your points really aren't points at all, they're just distractions from the main issue that you don't want to accept is fact: Rage does too much damage.

And no, there is no logic behind your arguments. Your "logic" amounts to saying that red chickens win warzones. Irrelevant and not even true in the first place.

You realise thats just blatently not true. My buddy rage specced, we group up and PVP all the time. He runs as power heavy as he can atm, which leaves him about 91% accuracy 22% crit and a hell of alot of bonus damage. Consistantly we check stats at the end of the match, seeing who did what and what the end results were.

 

His Smashes reguarly do 7200+, he's hit as high as 8006 so far.

 

Force Scream averages 4500+, easily hitting 5000 often.

 

Ravage is well past 8000-9000 when all the hits connect.

 

Visious Throw is like Force Scream damage wise, easily going past 5000.

 

He does not miss often.

 

Please explain to me how a warriors filler attacks are junk, when they average to what are considered most other classes "big hits", while your own is pretty much unsurpassed currently in top end damage. And its AOE.

Would love to see his gear, and screen caps of the hits for the others here, I don't need it as a Sorc I know these numbers all too well. Not OP at all guys

You realise thats just blatently not true. My buddy rage specced, we group up and PVP all the time. He runs as power heavy as he can atm, which leaves him about 91% accuracy 22% crit and a hell of alot of bonus damage. Consistantly we check stats at the end of the match, seeing who did what and what the end results were.

 

His Smashes reguarly do 7200+, he's hit as high as 8006 so far.

 

Force Scream averages 4500+, easily hitting 5000 often.

 

Ravage is well past 8000-9000 when all the hits connect.

 

Visious Throw is like Force Scream damage wise, easily going past 5000.

 

He does not miss often.

 

Please explain to me how a warriors filler attacks are junk, when they average to what are considered most other classes "big hits", while your own is pretty much unsurpassed currently in top end damage. And its AOE.

Total BS. Those numbers not even make sense, smash on rage spec always hit 2.5-3x times harder than scream crit. Ravage crit do 80% of smash dmg over 3 hits. Vicious throw crit 60% of smash dmg

You realise thats just blatently not true. My buddy rage specced, we group up and PVP all the time. He runs as power heavy as he can atm, which leaves him about 91% accuracy 22% crit and a hell of alot of bonus damage. Consistantly we check stats at the end of the match, seeing who did what and what the end results were.

 

His Smashes reguarly do 7200+, he's hit as high as 8006 so far.

 

Force Scream averages 4500+, easily hitting 5000 often.

 

Ravage is well past 8000-9000 when all the hits connect.

 

Visious Throw is like Force Scream damage wise, easily going past 5000.

 

He does not miss often.

 

Please explain to me how a warriors filler attacks are junk, when they average to what are considered most other classes "big hits", while your own is pretty much unsurpassed currently in top end damage. And its AOE.

This hasn't been updated for two weeks so my gear is better atm.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/44ebf162-4bfe-4cbe-a52c-2393ebb6bebb

Before 1.6 this would be considered BiS (although some prefer one more lvl 63 armoring). I am fairly close to current BiS, I could still eek out another 6-10ish force power. I won't because I'm not playing my rage too much lately.

Two events from last night:

1. Last night I had my single biggest hit in this game (pve or pvp) it was on a sorc wearing mostly centurion (and a few champ gear). He was a returning player, we chatted for a bit after the WZ. I hit him for a staggering 9480. I had the WZ damage boost and 4 stacks of shockwave. I play jugg so no bloodthirst. He had just over 13000 HP. In short, current gear in this game does not allow for this kind of hit (without best scenario buffs/debuffs). If he was full mk-2 recruit the hit would have still been high, probably low to mid 7k.

2. My lowest hits. 2200 on a PT SheildTech. His gear is solid, I would call him well geared. Not simply out of the box WH. The other low hit (s), which happened multiple times was on a jugg tank hybrid. I did not break 3.5k against him in multiple WZs. I know this guy and he is also well geared. I missed him on pretty much every melee damage based attack.

My average high hit in any WZ is somewhere in the 6700-6800 range. Those are on the undergeared. I played multiple WZs against Bad Company, which is a well geared, talented pvp guild. My average hit on their toons was around the 4.5k-5.5k mark.

My toon is a glass cannon. My health hovers around 19k and I miss often enough that I may remove some power for accuracy. Against good teams I usually don't live through one 4 second hard stun. Missing on force leap / obliterate / ravage / viscous throw is a huge pain.

Force scream hits lowly geared players for high 4s when it crits. High 3s for well geared when it crits.

Viscous throw hits lowly geared players for mid 5s when it crits. Low 4s for well geared when it crits.

And no, there is no logic behind your arguments. Your "logic" amounts to saying that red chickens win warzones. Irrelevant and not even true in the first place.

Have you been playing since launch?

Since when was issues with Maras/Sents not been relevant? I'll give you a play by play..

See sage/other unwarranted nerfs(indirectly relevant)/See Mara avoiding the nerfbat: 1.2 SCREWED many classes all except the Warrior/Knight AC, which lead to..

See FOTM Mara/Sent population post 1.2(directly). The sheer amount of the second FOTM class exploded. And complaints, even prior to the avoiding the nerfbat in 1.3

See resolve change(directly relevant)- Resolve was changed to "prevent maras from becoming wrecking balls under full resolve" again changing the entire game to "prevent" maras from becoming wrecking balls.

Your argument is = complaining your dog ******* in the house, but you didn't let it outside for a day.

Dispel on you and teammates works

CC break on choke works

Teammates peeling during chokes works

Kiting them works

Letting your dog go outside works

At least the arguments I have offered are actually logical reasons to ask for an adjustment, but instead you just try to discredit me. QQ sommoor 4 me, k...

Here I will post it again... Read closely...

 

Opposition only has two/three arguments, and need to stick to them:

1. Maras/Sents have been and still are an issue: They have been OP'd since 1.2, so there was already a huge influx of possible smashers in addition to the pre 1.2 ones causing an imbalance among classes.

2. Force/Tech heavy classes can't spec into a proc to modify their biggest Force/Tech hitter via two/three different talents.

3. The ease of attaining good PvP gear means more "top geared players"; making it *slightly overpowered...

 

 

Those are the only stances that hold water without sounding like more QQ/welfare/socialist, garbage...

This hasn't been updated for two weeks so my gear is better atm.

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/44ebf162-4bfe-4cbe-a52c-2393ebb6bebb

 

Before 1.6 this would be considered BiS (although some prefer one more lvl 63 armoring). I am fairly close to current BiS, I could still eek out another 6-10ish force power. I won't because I'm not playing my rage too much lately.

 

Two events from last night:

1. Last night I had my single biggest hit in this game (pve or pvp) it was on a sorc wearing mostly centurion (and a few champ gear). He was a returning player, we chatted for a bit after the WZ. I hit him for a staggering 9480. I had the WZ damage boost and 4 stacks of shockwave. I play jugg so no bloodthirst. He had just over 13000 HP. In short, current gear in this game does not allow for this kind of hit (without best scenario buffs/debuffs). If he was full mk-2 recruit the hit would have still been high, probably low to mid 7k.

 

2. My lowest hits. 2200 on a PT SheildTech. His gear is solid, I would call him well geared. Not simply out of the box WH. The other low hit (s), which happened multiple times was on a jugg tank hybrid. I did not break 3.5k against him in multiple WZs. I know this guy and he is also well geared. I missed him on pretty much every melee damage based attack.

 

My average high hit in any WZ is somewhere in the 6700-6800 range. Those are on the undergeared. I played multiple WZs against Bad Company, which is a well geared, talented pvp guild. My average hit on their toons was around the 4.5k-5.5k mark.

 

My toon is a glass cannon. My health hovers around 19k and I miss often enough that I may remove some power for accuracy. Against good teams I usually don't live through one 4 second hard stun. Missing on force leap / obliterate / ravage / viscous throw is a huge pain.

 

Force scream hits lowly geared players for high 4s when it crits. High 3s for well geared when it crits.

Viscous throw hits lowly geared players for mid 5s when it crits. Low 4s for well geared when it crits.

Then Smash + Scream/Vicius throw from two smashers and 20k hp is gone away.

On the other hand 4 sorcs/mercs must crit all at the same time to get that high. Imbalance someone might say.

Then Smash + Scream/Vicius throw from two Smashers and 20k hp gone away.

On the other hand 4 sorcs/mercs must crit all at the same time to get that high. Imbalance maybe....

That is not accurate. Crit chance in this spec is the lowest in game. My chance to miss is also incredibly high against some classes, as high as 19%. Classes have cooldowns that force 100% miss, ccs, cleanse, inturrupts, instant stealth, pulls, etc.

The way you talking I could say that my PT (when playing pyro) will hit for 15k instantly, 19k the following global CD. Or that my shaddow hits for 19k in 3 globals. Or that my sniper hits for 20k in 3 globals. You could even say a lightning sorc his for 18k in three globals.

All of that is nonsense, but "possible".

That is not accurate. Crit chance in this spec is the lowest in game. My chance to miss is also incredibly high against some classes, as high as 19%. Classes have cooldowns that force 100% miss, ccs, cleanse, inturrupts, instant stealth, pulls, etc.

 

The way you talking I could say that my PT (when playing pyro) will hit for 15k instantly, 19k the following global CD. Or that my shaddow hits for 19k in 3 globals. Or that my sniper hits for 20k in 3 globals. You could even say a lightning sorc his for 18k in three globals.

 

All of that is nonsense, but "possible".

In your post it is stated an average hit of 6700-6800 range. The average hit of the average sorcs/mercs (crit) is below 4000. It is not an unfair comparison.

In your post it is stated an average hit of 6700-6800 range. The average hit of the average sorcs/mercs (crit) is below 4000. It is not an unfair comparison.

I clearly said average "high hit" on "undergeared players". Also I wasn't posting an argument, I was posting statistics.

Average hit vs well geared, as I said. Bad Company, was 4.5-5.5k.

You're so quick to argue that people can't post without you becoming instantly defensive. Also I fail to understand why you are comparing Juggs/Maras to Sorc/Sage & Merc/Commando.

You know what destroys a rage jugg when played correctly? Madness sorc or hybrid bubble/stun madness sorc.

In your post it is stated an average hit of 6700-6800 range. The average hit of the average sorcs/mercs (crit) is below 4000. It is not an unfair comparison. And, usually there are more than one rage speced.

Regarding under-geared. I have EWH and yet I have notice the high range on numbers you stated.

FiB/DF hits close to 4-5K (when you are spec'd/geared for it), and you should be doing the same thing they are doing as a sorc/sage...

Stacking Power.... Using autocrit talents...

It's a perfect comparison... either move Shock/Sing or give sorc/sage & dps merc (Force/Tech heavy specs) a way to ramp up their big AoE hitter..

Fastest is about 8 seconds, if we are using absolutes let's, at least, make sure they are true. Not always possible but that's fastest and that is only 2 second longer then Obfuscate and 3 seconds then the Roar. Also you can smash 3 times in an 18 seconds window since we assume your smash is off cool down at the beginning of the fight and you'll open with that (meh, make that 21 if you don't have the fury). 2 good rage specced players can decimate and entire node defense in about 10 seconds. What makes Smash a bit out of whack is being an instant buffed auto-critting AOE. Make the shock-wave/singularity build on one target and all will be fine. Auto-critting should be left alone and should still be AOE wide.

 

 

My two cents .

 

P.S. If you have an argument to make, can you try not to attack and insult people you are trying to convince? It'll work much better I promise you.

I would try not to insult... Kinda hard when people are throwing around ridicules numbers and acting like it is the status qua. And if you read my post you would see why it was stated the way it was.

And if 2 rage jugs decimate a node full of the other teams players.... it is because the other team needs to learn to play. That statement you made is a little ridicules.

People complaining "Rage juggs working together." well work together to kill them then. Obviously people will be more effective working together. ZOMG 2 Stealths are working together to take a node. ~

Also; mara has/builds fury juggs dont.

My facts are fine. 18 seconds fine... no stuns/roots or CC. Just stand there and let me get off three smashes and beat on you even though Rage jugs don't have a hard stun... Really? Really?

My facts are fine. 18 seconds fine... no stuns/roots or CC. Just stand there and let me get off three smashes and beat on you even though Rage jugs don't have a hard stun... Really? Really?

/agree...

FiB/DF hits close to 4-5K (when you are spec'd/geared for it), and you should be doing the same thing they are doing as a sorc/sage...

 

Stacking Power.... Using autocrit talents...

 

It's a perfect comparison... either move Shock/Sing or give sorc/sage & dps merc (Force/Tech heavy specs) a way to ramp up their big AoE hitter..

^^ I like you

Sure... then make saber throw a really low CD so we can spam it and be a range class. Sounds legit.

I also want stealth and the ability to drop out of a fight if I am losing... can we do that?

The ability to spot heal myself to full after kiting someone while still in combat would not be bad either.

<3

FiB/DF hits close to 4-5K (when you are spec'd/geared for it), and you should be doing the same thing they are doing as a sorc/sage...

 

Stacking Power.... Using autocrit talents...

 

It's a perfect comparison... either move Shock/Sing or give sorc/sage & dps merc (Force/Tech heavy specs) a way to ramp up their big AoE hitter..

Agree here. Let arsenal mercs have a proc to increase the damage of DFA (and decrease its cooldown).

Sure... then make saber throw a really low CD so we can spam it and be a range class. Sounds legit.

Its a matter of what is over-the-top and what is L2P, it's in the middle, because they have gap closers.

Maybe decrease the stacks to max 3 would be enough.... but

/agree