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Bring back Mara?


jaguarclaw's Avatar


jaguarclaw
01.07.2013 , 09:32 PM | #1
(Apologies if this has been discussed to death before; I don't check these forums that often. Also, spoilers for old books.)
So I know Star Wars doesn't really do the whole "bringing dead characters back to life" thing like the Marvelverse does (or Trek did) after the Palpatine-cloning thing blew up in everyone's faces, but I genuinely do think it would be justified in the case of Mara Jade. Seriously, of all the characters to kill, that one makes very, very little sense. Chewie I could understand, in that he had long since ceased to be all that significant. Anakin Solo made sense as well, to up the odds and bring the emotional pain along with the whole "losing Coruscant" thing.

But Mara was still an important character, with a lot of fan and authorial support. She was killed off by a different author than the one who created her, without that original author's input, which just screams sloppiness and worse, simple selfishness. It left her whole story on a bitter note, and that fact that Zahn is still willing to write stories featuring her shows that there is still an attachment to the character amongst Lucasfilm (or whoever manages the books specifically).

Frankly, I think Zahn and the Lucasfilm people should just take the next step and bring her back. Traviss has had to be retconned before (the Mandos and their OP-ness, for instance), so her worst mistake should be fixed as well. There's already been so much weird Force-********-whatever surrounding her and letting her temporarily return as a ghost that they may as well just take the plunge.
Anyone else feel the same way?

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
01.07.2013 , 09:44 PM | #2
Mara's death, while the scene itself was bad, does make some sense. You have to realize that Jacen was trying to turn Ben to the Darkside. What better way than to kill his mother? It just so happens that Karen Traviss killed her off. KT hated Mara Jade, and Jedi as a wwhole. She didn't listen to the other authors.

Being a huge Mara Jade fan, I would hate it if they brought her back to life at this point. I would like to see her death scene re-written to give her a better, more fitting death. But since she is dead, and I hate saying this, she should remain dead. Bringing her back wpuld be a huge undertaking. How would it even be done? Luke would not want her to be cloned, so that would eliminate that idea.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.07.2013 , 09:48 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
Mara's death, while the scene itself was bad, does make some sense. You have to realize that Jacen was trying to turn Ben to the Darkside. What better way than to kill his mother? It just so happens that Karen Traviss killed her off. KT hated Mara Jade, and Jedi as a wwhole. She didn't listen to the other authors.

Being a huge Mara Jade fan, I would hate it if they brought her back to life at this point. I would like to see her death scene re-written to give her a better, more fitting death. But since she is dead, and I hate saying this, she should remain dead. Bringing her back wpuld be a huge undertaking. How would it even be done? Luke would not want her to be cloned, so that would eliminate that idea.

Could just retcon it? But ya...I think its gone passed the point, am sure a lot of people would want her back but as it stands now...if she is things may need to be tweaked here and there.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

jaguarclaw's Avatar


jaguarclaw
01.07.2013 , 09:50 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
Mara's death, while the scene itself was bad, does make some sense. You have to realize that Jacen was trying to turn Ben to the Darkside. What better way than to kill his mother? It just so happens that Karen Traviss killed her off. KT hated Mara Jade, and Jedi as a wwhole. She didn't listen to the other authors.

Being a huge Mara Jade fan, I would hate it if they brought her back to life at this point. I would like to see her death scene re-written to give her a better, more fitting death. But since she is dead, and I hate saying this, she should remain dead. Bringing her back wpuld be a huge undertaking. How would it even be done? Luke would not want her to be cloned, so that would eliminate that idea.

KT may hate Jedi (why the hell did they ever let her write anything but those Republic Commando books? it boggles the mind), but I recall in some interview they did with her that said she actually really liked Mara (presumably moreso before she became a Jedi), and had a hard time writing the scene. And even though it may have made sense, the fact of the matter is likely that had she not taken unilateral action in not checking with Zahn (which any author with any sense would do), it would not have been approved.
And I don't think anything should be retroactively changed, but I'm sure they could magic up some kind of explanation for a resurrection - they have brought people back from basically force-ghost-status before, just not very much lately. Cloning is right out, but I'm sure there could be some sort of way to do it that isn't totally stupid.
And hey, it's only been a handful of years. SW has done weirder things than let presumably-dead characters come back in that span of time.

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
01.07.2013 , 10:08 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by jaguarclaw View Post
KT may hate Jedi (why the hell did they ever let her write anything but those Republic Commando books? it boggles the mind), but I recall in some interview they did with her that said she actually really liked Mara (presumably moreso before she became a Jedi), and had a hard time writing the scene. And even though it may have made sense, the fact of the matter is likely that had she not taken unilateral action in not checking with Zahn (which any author with any sense would do), it would not have been approved.
And I don't think anything should be retroactively changed, but I'm sure they could magic up some kind of explanation for a resurrection - they have brought people back from basically force-ghost-status before, just not very much lately. Cloning is right out, but I'm sure there could be some sort of way to do it that isn't totally stupid.
And hey, it's only been a handful of years. SW has done weirder things than let presumably-dead characters come back in that span of time.
KT should have talked to Zahn before writting anything. Hell, I wish she stuck with just the RC novels. Maybe the wuthors can put their collective creative minds together and figure out an epic way to bring Mara back. She deserves nothing less because she is an epic character. I would love it if she were still alive. I just don't want her return to be lame like her death. KT should have left that to Zahn himself.

jaguarclaw's Avatar


jaguarclaw
01.07.2013 , 10:11 PM | #6
Kilikaa, we completely agree.
I mean, let's be realistic here: they've already done so much with Mara in the last few years - I think she may have gotten more time and character development in as a Force-ghost than Obi-Wan(probably), Anakin, or Yoda ever did. Zahn wants to write a new series about her, and he was originally planning it on not being a prequel, with her not dead. She's already gotten another prequel-ish book in that series' place.
They may as well just bring her back.

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
01.07.2013 , 10:22 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by jaguarclaw View Post
Kilikaa, we completely agree.
I mean, let's be realistic here: they've already done so much with Mara in the last few years - I think she may have gotten more time and character development in as a Force-ghost than Obi-Wan(probably), Anakin, or Yoda ever did. Zahn wants to write a new series about her, and he was originally planning it on not being a prequel, with her not dead. She's already gotten another prequel-ish book in that series' place.
They may as well just bring her back.
I would love a story written where she finds Jacen's Force ghost and kicks hiss arse over and over. Then Luke finds a way to bring her back to life. Maybe bring Jacen back just so the whole family can take turns beating the crap out of him again. lol Don't get me wrong, I loved Jacen too. Thought he made a great villian. But he deserves a series of beatings.

YoshiRaphElan's Avatar


YoshiRaphElan
01.07.2013 , 11:13 PM | #8
No, KT didn't hate Jedi, she didn't even hate Mara. That's a misconception because she usually writes about Mandos instead. But she gets a bad rep for killing Mara. She was the one who suggested Mara be the one to die -- so she carried it out. Logical. Would Aaron Allston be getting the "Jedi hater" rep just because he focused on X-wing pilots, if he killed Mara. Cut KT some slack, eh?

jaguarclaw's Avatar


jaguarclaw
01.08.2013 , 12:31 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by YoshiRaphElan View Post
No, KT didn't hate Jedi, she didn't even hate Mara. That's a misconception because she usually writes about Mandos instead. But she gets a bad rep for killing Mara. She was the one who suggested Mara be the one to die -- so she carried it out. Logical. Would Aaron Allston be getting the "Jedi hater" rep just because he focused on X-wing pilots, if he killed Mara. Cut KT some slack, eh?
It goes a little bit deeper than that, I think. An interesting interview:
http://www.karentraviss.com/page10/f...ate_Jedi_.html
Note she kinda sidesteps the question, but it ultimately comes down to a few points.

- She "doesn't hate Jedi", because if you hate fictional things, you're insane. Ok, sure, whatever.

- She says that essentially, Jedi must be accepted to be flawed and real people, not genetically gifted demigods incapable of immoral actions. Any reasonable person can accept this.

- Then she goes into this kinda weird thing where she says, in not so many words, that the acceptance of the clone army was the moral event horizon for the Jedi, and they basically compromised their morality there, and from what I can tell from her perspective, this mindset continues into the NJO era.

Traviss' rep as a Jedi hater came way before Mara was killed (which certainly didn't disprove the idea). People aren't offended on this end by her suggestion that Jedi aren't perfect (they aren't), but that she constantly shoves the Jedi aside in favor of her uber-OP Mandos and (not so OP) Republic commandos.

In the RC books, this kinda made sense, as there is a genuine argument to be made that the Jedi ****ed up majorly there on several levels, compromising their morality, and they were primarily dealing with weaker Jedi and stupid Jedi...essentially, the people you'd expect to not exactly be the ideal people to lead and fight, next to the Commandos. There was a reason for them to be awesome and righteous and the Jedi not.

But in her NJO books, this gets taken to a ludicrous extreme with how awesome the Mandos (clone expies, of course) are in comparison to the Jedi, who, under Luke have changed a lot in terms of their thinking and ideology to be less elitist. There's an argument to be made, certainly, over whether Luke's NJO would have accepted the clones had they been in charge back then. But suddenly, Traviss goes right back to the "Clones/Mandos are not just the equal of the Jedi but BETTER" school of thought: they have better armor, better training, better weapons, better vehicles...and other authors had to retcon this to make it more realistic.

This is the core of the objection - if this was just her RC series, it would make more sense, but her NJO books kinda prove that she does have, if anything, a pro-Mando/Clone bias that comes directly at the expense of the Jedi, which compromises the storytelling to a noticeable degree. Mara getting killed off was just another proof of that mindset.

And DON'T YOU DRAG ALLSTON INTO THIS! He's my favorite ever SW writer!
And yeah, he focuses a lot on X-Wing pilots, but it never feels like it comes at the expense of anyone else, like Traviss with the Jedi. Allston can write Jedi excellently, I think.

Darth_Des's Avatar


Darth_Des
01.08.2013 , 01:07 AM | #10
As a long time fan of the EU i love Mara Jade but i would hate to see them bring her back. Luke saw her when he was doing the whole out of body thing. Can't remember what they called that. Cade Skywalker saw her force ghost in the legacy comics but thats a good way into the future. She could make more appearance as a force ghost but bringing her back wouldnt make sense. And if she was cloned she'd just end up going crazy cause thats what happens to clones of force users.

I would love to see more books about her as a Jedi I believe theres a 5 year gap between the NJO books and the Dark Nest trilogy.