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Kill order is weak to strong


Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.07.2013 , 03:41 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Rosielink View Post
Except that if you are coming from other MMO's, it doesn't work the same way. This is my 3rd mmorpg......both of the other two had it set up that dps concentrated solely on the main tank's target. AT ALL TIMES! If you didn't, you were called out for it and "taught" how to do it correctly. It also seems that tanks in those other games have more taunts and abilities to grab full mob aggro. In raid groups, there would always be an off-tank that would be assigned and certain dps would be assigned to assist him in burning adds. It also didn't help that most of the time, it was better to burn the boss asap and ignore the adds (the adds would poof when the boss went down.) The group set-up in this game is way different too....I"m used to 6-man groups, w/tank, healer, and a mix of others. That mix included dps, power-feeders, mezzers, etc. Just some things to point out that make the fights here somewhat disorienting at first.
Not having played any other MMOs (TOR is my first), I find this sort of thing surprising.

What would be the benefit of ignoring weaker mobs and having the DPS focus on the tanks main high-health target?

It would seem that even in other MMOs, a weak enemy is a) Still capably of doing damage to the party and b) Dies relatively quickly so why not kill them immediately?

Do killing the weak mobs give a buff to the elite mob (like a mini-enrage)? If you kill weak mobs do they respawn with more of them (herakles and the hydra)? Do every elite mob come with a tight enrage timer so any time dps'ing trash is bad?

Rosielink's Avatar


Rosielink
01.07.2013 , 04:17 PM | #42
The main tank may be tanking the lower mobs first, then taking on the bigger one, but you always focus on his target. Most even just tell you to target them (the tank) and your attacks go through him. This also helps him keep aggro too (which is another weird thing about this game, I don't seem to find a way to turn on targeting through someone else.)

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.07.2013 , 08:35 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Rosielink View Post
The main tank may be tanking the lower mobs first, then taking on the bigger one, but you always focus on his target. Most even just tell you to target them (the tank) and your attacks go through him. This also helps him keep aggro too (which is another weird thing about this game, I don't seem to find a way to turn on targeting through someone else.)
So just to get this straight, in other MMOs, if the dps is attacking the same target as the tank, instead of competing for aggro, any threat the dps makes gets added to the tank's threat?

Raekor's Avatar


Raekor
01.07.2013 , 09:04 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
So just to get this straight, in other MMOs, if the dps is attacking the same target as the tank, instead of competing for aggro, any threat the dps makes gets added to the tank's threat?
No it's not added. It just means they aren't attacking something the tank isn't actively tanking, so are pulling random things off making it harder on the tank.

The only other MMO I played was WoW many years ago, and from what I remember its trash packs didn't usually come with so many normal and strong adds, it was mainly multiple elites (also the packs weren't so spread out). The fights were more about CC and tanks controlling everything, where as in SWTOR it seems that control of the weaker mobs is being expected of DPS whilst the tanks take the elites damage until the rest are mopped up.

As pointed out though, that is in general. There are quite a few exceptions (Mercenaries in Kaon come to mind, which also made me think about how crap people are at interrupting), which people will also expect DPS to know about, unless the DPS say they haven't been there before or are unsure of what the mobs do.

Elyk_Borne's Avatar


Elyk_Borne
01.07.2013 , 11:53 PM | #45
As a tank myself, I've seen this quite often in HM Fp's. I have gotten into the habit of holding aggro on the champ, then pulling one add to me(I'm PT so I have grapple) and then single shot attacking the other weak or elite before turning my attention back to the two in front of me. This allows the weaker mobs to get downed while maintaining aggro on the champ, when both dps and I can then focus on it.

It also helps, in a group find, to type out a plan for a general understanding(doesn't always work-if it is decided to cc two droids and immediately someone throws an AoE, that player gets a vote for kick if it happens twice, but helps). Mostly now though, I run with just my guildies.
The Ghosts

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
01.08.2013 , 01:27 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Rosielink View Post
which is another weird thing about this game, I don't seem to find a way to turn on targeting through someone else.
In key bindings, there's a binding for "acquire target's target". IIRC it's bound to alt-t by default.

Ryofo's Avatar


Ryofo
01.08.2013 , 01:38 PM | #47
The difference in Swtor to "other" mmo's is that threat is not instantly generated at 300% here, it is very hard to keep aggro on 4-5+ mobs. Add to the fact that most non-elite mobs can be killed in seconds it is just more practical for the tank to focus on the strongest mobs to build the threat whilst your dps kill the weaker ones.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.08.2013 , 02:17 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Ryofo View Post
The difference in Swtor to "other" mmo's is that threat is not instantly generated at 300% here, it is very hard to keep aggro on 4-5+ mobs. Add to the fact that most non-elite mobs can be killed in seconds it is just more practical for the tank to focus on the strongest mobs to build the threat whilst your dps kill the weaker ones.
Okay, so that's interesting. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this.

Would it be correct to say (as regards other MMOs):

1. When fighting a group of mobs there aren't a lot of weak ones.
2. The other mobs take a long time to kill.
3. If the dps tried attacking the other mobs, they would get overwhelmed and would die.
4. It's easy for tanks to hold aggro on the entire group.
5. So killing the one the tank is attacking will ensure that only the tank takes damage during the fight?

kingcyber's Avatar


kingcyber
01.08.2013 , 02:39 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
I do try to kill the weakest ones first, but sometimes that creates a problem where everyone targets the same mob and it dies so fast that time is wasted in aborted ability activations and re-targeting. In that situation I usually switch to a stronger one for a while. And sometimes I just don't notice all the weaker enemies, or one of them is behind an obstacle and I can't shoot it.
I hope people aren't complaining about the moments like this when you just don't see the right target. or if you have already commited to a target and are burning it down. I am DPS and follow this weak to strong kill order unless there are healers present then I go after them first like a honey badger (like in long shots in section X). Honestly, most of the people that don't follow basic game strategy have never gone online to figure out what they are doing wrong.

justsillyotp's Avatar


justsillyotp
01.08.2013 , 03:32 PM | #50
just take me with you to your HMs. i may not have a lot of gear but i kill things in the right order, sometimes with an accidental force leap to the cc target... >.>