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One planet is not an expansion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
One planet is not an expansion
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Devlonir's Avatar


Devlonir
01.07.2013 , 04:55 AM | #611
Quote: Originally Posted by Marmerus View Post
Enough content to last one or two weeks minimum.
This is a very personal statement. And by that definition: Not one WoW expansion was worthy of your definition of expansion because a group of people beat most content of all those expansions within the first few weeks.

Congratulations.

Let's talk hours of gameplay split into different activities like levelling, exploration, PVP, Raiding, mini games, etc.. than you have one way to measure amount of 'content'. But content itself is very hard to measure because in almost every game time spent on content is created by making the player repeat certain activities to achieve certain results. This is extra true for MMO's, but every game has that. And can you really count content once if it is designed to be repeated?

In that essence.. the original game had numerous hours of class stories, 8 in total, combined with 2 seperate stories for every planet as well as flashpoints, operations and all that jazz. But for a certain subgroup of players the content was done way too quickly because they choose to focus on 1 class story and 1 planet story, often not even experiencing everything along the way, then came to the repeated content of endgame and said there wasn't enough of that and complained the game doesn't have enough content, while effectively doing only 1/8th of the class content and 1/2 of the planet content. Meaning that, in total, they did probably only 20-30% of available content. But for them and their experience of the game, their complaint was valid. They had done what they wanted to do, even if it wasn't even half of what was available.

And this is no different in other MMO's or games really.

So you can't measure an expansion on content because content itself is much too personal and subjective.
"Cows go 'Moo', Dogs go 'Woof', MMO Players go 'The PVP is unbalanced!" - Yahthzee
"I'm starting to get the feeling that BW and their MMO are not the dysfunctional ones." - Rafaman

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
01.07.2013 , 05:03 AM | #612
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlbo_Nabbins View Post
Yes it is. 5 levels and enough new missions to get those 5 levels IS an expansion. Its a small expansion, which is why its cheap.

A new large planet in SWTOR is equivalent to a handful of zones in other MMOS, which is what is considered an expansion if delivered all at one.
That is still an adventure pack though. Expansions have more than a handfull of zones, or have a handful of zones the size OF Belsavis.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Devlonir's Avatar


Devlonir
01.07.2013 , 05:09 AM | #613
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
That is still an adventure pack though. Expansions have more than a handfull of zones, or have a handful of zones the size OF Belsavis.
Adding a planet and new level expands the things you can do in a game in multiple ways.
Something that expands on a product, in any line of business, is called an expansion of the product.
The dictionary is against you my friend ;-)

Really, all this discussion about wether or not it is worth the name of an expansion is pointless at this time. So please let's just stop doing it. Rise of the Hutt Cartel will expand the story of the game, will expand the amount of levels you can gain, will expand your total amount of skill points, will expand the abilities your character has available for themselves. It is an expansion of all these things. Let's stop battling about semantics and just measure the product on it's actual worth as soon as it is released.

I bought RotHC as soon as it was available. Do I think the product itself was worth 10 dollars? I don't know.. what I do know is that, for me, the ability to play it earlier than others was worth 10 dollars. Hence me buying it now. That is the decision I made. If it's not worth 10 dollars to you now, don't spend it now. If it is still not worth 10 dollars to you when it's released, don't spend it then. it is really that simple.

This thread helps about as much as going to the toilet does: It releaves me of some crap, but I know that soon I'll need to be releaved of it again anyway.
"Cows go 'Moo', Dogs go 'Woof', MMO Players go 'The PVP is unbalanced!" - Yahthzee
"I'm starting to get the feeling that BW and their MMO are not the dysfunctional ones." - Rafaman

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
01.07.2013 , 05:15 AM | #614
Quote: Originally Posted by Devlonir View Post
Adding a planet and new level expands the things you can do in a game in multiple ways.
Something that expands on a product, in any line of business, is called an expansion of the product.
The dictionary is against you my friend ;-)

Really, all this discussion about wether or not it is worth the name of an expansion is pointless at this time. So please let's just stop doing it. Rise of the Hutt Cartel will expand the story of the game, will expand the amount of levels you can gain, will expand your total amount of skill points, will expand the abilities your character has available for themselves. It is an expansion of all these things. Let's stop battling about semantics and just measure the product on it's actual worth as soon as it is released.

I bought RotHC as soon as it was available. Do I think the product itself was worth 10 dollars? I don't know.. what I do know is that, for me, the ability to play it earlier than others was worth 10 dollars. Hence me buying it now. That is the decision I made. If it's not worth 10 dollars to you now, don't spend it now. If it is still not worth 10 dollars to you when it's released, don't spend it then. it is really that simple.

This thread helps about as much as going to the toilet does: It releaves me of some crap, but I know that soon I'll need to be releaved of it again anyway.


Ruins of Kunark is an expansion, a planet the size of Belsavis is an adventure pack.

Bioware EA's PR departement have called it an "expansion" for specific reasons, but if you call a Duck a Swan it still doens't stop it being a Duck. It is and always will be a Duck.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

Devlonir's Avatar


Devlonir
01.07.2013 , 05:58 AM | #615
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
Ruins of Kunark is an expansion, a planet the size of Belsavis is an adventure pack.

Bioware EA's PR departement have called it an "expansion" for specific reasons, but if you call a Duck a Swan it still doens't stop it being a Duck. It is and always will be a Duck.
You missed my point largely there my friend.

It was very simply: The term expansion itself is a non-standard description of something. Just because most expansions have a specific set of things, there is no very cleary definition or boundary between what amount of a content release is considered an actual expansion and what is not. There is no clearly defined industry standard of what needs to be in something before it is allowed to be called an expansion. So any discussion concerning this is pointless and about nothing but semantics.

This is a very simple fact despite all the claims made in this thread.

If a product expands on itself, than whatever does that expanding can be called an expansion of the earlier product. That is the only standard the word 'expansion' has: that it must expand on the original product.

Rise of the Hutt Cartel expands on the original product.
As did most of their content patches.

Simple and 100% true facts. Unlike the claim: Rise of the Hutt Cartel is not an expansion. The fact it is still being debated now is, in itself, clear proof that the fact that it is not an expansion is, actually, not a fact but an opinion.
"Cows go 'Moo', Dogs go 'Woof', MMO Players go 'The PVP is unbalanced!" - Yahthzee
"I'm starting to get the feeling that BW and their MMO are not the dysfunctional ones." - Rafaman

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
01.07.2013 , 06:12 AM | #616
Quote: Originally Posted by Devlonir View Post
You missed my point largely there my friend.

It was very simply: The term expansion itself is a non-standard description of something. Just because most expansions have a specific set of things, there is no very cleary definition or boundary between what amount of a content release is considered an actual expansion and what is not. There is no clearly defined industry standard of what needs to be in something before it is allowed to be called an expansion. So any discussion concerning this is pointless and about nothing but semantics.

This is a very simple fact despite all the claims made in this thread.

If a product expands on itself, than whatever does that expanding can be called an expansion of the earlier product. That is the only standard the word 'expansion' has: that it must expand on the original product.

Rise of the Hutt Cartel expands on the original product.
As did most of their content patches.

Simple and 100% true facts. Unlike the claim: Rise of the Hutt Cartel is not an expansion. The fact it is still being debated now is, in itself, clear proof that the fact that it is not an expansion is, actually, not a fact but an opinion.



We just disagree, you can call a duck whatever you want (and I agree you can).

However I don't believe calling a duck a swan makes it a swan.

Or an adventure pack and expansion makes it an expansion.

You believe calling something an expansion makes it an expansion, but you'll never convince me of that I'm afriad (especially when Bioware EA's PR department had very specific reasons for calling it an "expansion" IMO - most of which would be said to be more than a little disingenuous).

Or basically if someone tries to sell me a duck as a "swan" I'm always going to say "Er....... no. That is a duck!".
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

DiabloDoom's Avatar


DiabloDoom
01.07.2013 , 07:05 AM | #617
I guess it won't be as disappointing as buying the digi upgrade pack, or will it?

Oggthebase's Avatar


Oggthebase
01.07.2013 , 08:02 AM | #618
people have been expecting new flashpoints and new operations to go with Makeb, and I am pretty sure they're going to be disappointed.

(And I still stand by my earlier position that I won't buy Makeb. It was already paid by my subscription in 2012 when James Ohlen announced it, and I'm 100% sure that "they" did not even add a single thing more than what James originally designed for Makeb. It's just pure greed to make subscribers pay for it)

Mercathode's Avatar


Mercathode
01.07.2013 , 08:05 AM | #619
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post




We just disagree, you can call a duck whatever you want (and I agree you can).

However I don't believe calling a duck a swan makes it a swan.

Or an adventure pack and expansion makes it an expansion.

You believe calling something an expansion makes it an expansion, but you'll never convince me of that I'm afriad (especially when Bioware EA's PR department had very specific reasons for calling it an "expansion" IMO - most of which would be said to be more than a little disingenuous).

Or basically if someone tries to sell me a duck as a "swan" I'm always going to say "Er....... no. That is a duck!".
Calling a Swan a Duck isn't really right either. Until it actually comes out, no one knows what it will be. That's his point. Anyone can have an opinion. However, making assumptions based on something that you haven't seen, heard, or played with and calling it EITHER a Duck or a Swan is premature and pointless. Just hope for the best. $10 is not a big gamble even if it happens to suck. Take the Extra 5 levels, abilities, and corresponding points and move on.

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
01.07.2013 , 08:33 AM | #620
Quote: Originally Posted by Mercathode View Post
Calling a Swan a Duck isn't really right either. Until it actually comes out, no one knows what it will be. That's his point. Anyone can have an opinion. However, making assumptions based on something that you haven't seen, heard, or played with and calling it EITHER a Duck or a Swan is premature and pointless. Just hope for the best. $10 is not a big gamble even if it happens to suck. Take the Extra 5 levels, abilities, and corresponding points and move on.
We know exactly how big it is, they've told us - the size of Belsavis.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1