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Why I feel Endurance is Underrated

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
Why I feel Endurance is Underrated

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
12.22.2012 , 06:35 AM | #11
A similar debate was held about guardians in the tanking forum, generally my idea is that both ways have it's own merit, though of course there are critical thresholds that one needs to pass.

I personally have always thought that the +19 endurance I get from augments is better than any +19 mitigation I will get so I only went for endurance augments. The Result is that I am a guardian tank with 30.4k HP 30% def 50% shield and 45% absorbtion. If I was to change my augments to get the 5% more absorption I was ending up losing around 2.5k - 3k HP. After thinking about it while I do see the merits of mitigation stacking I didn't consider it so crucial as to spend money on changing 10+ more augments. Full 63 except earpiece btw.

What's important is to listen to your healers and observe your tanking performance yourself, see how often you get really low in fights, ask how hard for healers is to heal you, look at your wipes in bosses etc. My gear is well enough to take on all the content offered by this game and that suffices for me, until the day I hear from my healers criticism.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
12.24.2012 , 03:02 PM | #12
As a healer I hate anything with 26k+ unless in at least half DG gear. It wastes my time healing health which should not have been lost in the first place via mitigation. With the currently available mods, enhancements and augments it is pretty much impossible to hit hard DR on all def, shield and absorb.

While there are fights with predominantly unmitigated damage I do not see what difference it makes if the tank's health moves in 10k-25k range or 15k-30k range. If I need that 5k as a buffer then I fail as a healer and it has nothing to do with the tank's gear.

I do concede on the Shadow point. First of all I see the rational for higher HP (self heals are a percentage of health) and secondly I only have Jugg and Vang tanks so I will not pretend to know anything about Shadow tanking.

OP: Scoundrel healing does go into super efficient mode on targets below 30% and thus the higher health a tank has the higher the 30% range is. But ask yourself, do you really want to keep a tank at 30% just for that, especially with how efficient Scoundrel healing is anyway. For Commando and Sages it is detrimental as they can panic when they see a tank at 30% and move onto less resource efficient healing.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

Marb's Avatar


Marb
12.24.2012 , 08:28 PM | #13
Are we really having this discussion again.

First of all, what one person considers "HP stacking" seems to be different to another's. I would consider HP stacking to be using endurance augments and enhancements. That trade off is never going to be worth it. If your talking about mitigation and health in a 1:1 ratio, mitigation is better.

However, when it comes to mods, they have a significantly higher stat budget in favour of endurance, a much better trade off. Swapping a few unlettered mods out for lettered is the only way you should get more health. I wouldn't consider a tank with 2-3 lettered mods a health stacker.

Also Keyboardninja makes a good case for assassins using 27B mods if your using the correct rotation.
Zerkhan - Harbinger

haksilence's Avatar


haksilence
01.02.2013 , 01:33 AM | #14
as people have seen from my takes on this subject i follow kintru and Keyboardninja's views. expecialy on the shadow tank.

i agree there should be a balance. my current setup
(in a moment of weekness i took out all my absorb mods and RE'd them to try and get the schem but did not, so they have been replacced by all defence mods. not correct but not bad since it makes deflection a viable oh **** button)

HP: 25290
DR: 40.25
Defence: 33.89%
Shield (w/ KW): 65.10%
Absorb: 58%

this is entirely campaign, since i have no trouble at all tanking any fight in this entire damn game i decided to pool all my resources to gear out my healing in Dreadguard gear. so my poor shadow gets no dreadguard cause he doesnt need it.

here is my thoughts and feelings from what ive seen, learned, and experienced as a healer and a tank.

A balance is nice, But Mitigation > HP. HP might be usefull in some instances but a competent healer can put out enough HPS for any fight at any time. i play the extreme stacking mitigation to the highest degree so i display proof, if healers can heal me through NiM Stormcaller then there is no reason for any more HP.

when i go Dreadguard i will be going for a more balanced aproach since with the numbers provided by Keyboard ninja, there is a point were HP provides more Mitigation in the form of self healing that would a true mitigation point. and im at that point.

bottom line is;
High mitigation is good and dandy for any fight in this entire game,

A strong balance with good mitigation is great and would most likely be considered "optimal"
(being a Mitigation tank i recognize the balance as being optimal but i prefer sleeping through trash pulls simply because its what i enjoy and it is my playstyle)

High endurance is inexcusable and amateur at best. yes you can make it through current content with high endurance on account that THIS GAME IS VERY EASY and NONE of the encounters are changing. but is in no way shape or form the correct way to go.

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
01.03.2013 , 05:19 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by haksilence View Post
High endurance is inexcusable and amateur at best. yes you can make it through current content with high endurance on account that THIS GAME IS VERY EASY and NONE of the encounters are changing. but is in no way shape or form the correct way to go.
Excuse me but this is just wrong. There is currently only one guild which has been able to kill Kephess in NiM 16 after much difficulty. The content by no means is "Very easy". Judging the game purely through by the book expectations of healers and dps playing perfectly does not always apply to every situation in raiding. I would not in any way say hp stacking is the way to go, but there is no "this way or you suck" situation in gearing up so long as you follow basic principles in this game, and that does not in any way include having to get 0.2% more absorbtion in comparison to 190 HP. Both have their own merits.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

haksilence's Avatar


haksilence
01.06.2013 , 09:51 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
Excuse me but this is just wrong. There is currently only one guild which has been able to kill Kephess in NiM 16 after much difficulty. The content by no means is "Very easy". Judging the game purely through by the book expectations of healers and dps playing perfectly does not always apply to every situation in raiding. I would not in any way say hp stacking is the way to go, but there is no "this way or you suck" situation in gearing up so long as you follow basic principles in this game, and that does not in any way include having to get 0.2% more absorbtion in comparison to 190 HP. Both have their own merits.
maybe in your own server but there are several on our server. Nemesis, Empire, Wrath of the forsaken... and there are 3 or 4 others. but again my comment saying this game is easy is directed to the tanking, there is no encounter where the incoming DPS is so high you need to stack endurance to survive. and I am judging the game by what it is. My main is a tank and my secondary character is a DPS and healer, so ive seen all aspects of the game in all content under all difficulties. i have a pretty good idea of what im talking about.



*EDIT*
I didnt see the 16M part you may be right there im not sure how many have completed 16M yet.