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Anger and fear.


Colyer's Avatar


Colyer
01.05.2013 , 06:52 PM | #41
Rationality need not apply to the Sith Empire but, from the mindset of the Sith at least, I don't really agree with you.

Anger and fear are very important to militaristic societies. In order to maintain order in the face of decisions that the Empire makes, you have to have a constant "enemy". Right now, anger and fear are directed at the Republic. (If you're thinking "How many Sith Lords have you seen that are afraid of the Republic?" I'll get to that in a second.) Even in times of peace, there has to be a threat, imagined or not. Anger and fear keep the Empire running.

From the perspective of an the Sith Order itself, the Dark Side isn't the Light Side. It isn't about to offer you something for nothing. The Dark Side demands fuel. The most available fuel for beginning Dark Side practitioners is fear. Fear of their masters. Fear of failure. Fear of death... so on and so on. So you get a taste of the Dark Side, and we all know that from there "forever will it dominate your destiny." And then it escalates. Fear gets you your start, and then comes the anger (hate -> suffering was it?). In the later stages of the escalations, the practitioner isn't himself anymore. And then rationality really does just go out the window.

MariaD's Avatar


MariaD
01.07.2013 , 05:11 AM | #42
Thank you for this thread. The idea of looking at (real life) physiological roots of Sith powers is fascinating. Some comments say it can't be done, and some that it makes sense. I am with the "mostly makes sense" group.

Humans evolved fear and anger for good reasons. These are survival traits. So, the basic premise is that it is adaptive to experience fear and anger.

In particular, I am thinking of very strong responses. Folk wisdom comes to mind. "Don't mess with cornered animals" and "mama bear" in particular. People (and animals) are capable of amazing bursts of speed or very strong fighting when scared enough, for themselves or their loved ones. You probably have some family legends about it. My mom likes to talk about the time she lifted a two-ton concrete block off my foot, when I was a toddler. I just had my foot stuck under, but my mom thought the block fell on me, got scared, and became super-strong for a second.

A strong electric discharge sometimes makes a person "fly away" many meters. What really happens is the muscles tense, all at once, way beyond their normal strength. It's like a Force Charge in real life. It can tear tendons and break bones and what not, so Don't Try This At Home (TM).

So in my headcannon, the Sith use the advanced versions of these real-life physiological reactions, in controlled and refined ways. This use of the Force still hurts their bodies, just like real-life feats of that sort aren't good for your health. But these abilities evolved because being eaten by a saber-toothed tiger is even worse, health-wise!
Quicker
Easier
More seductive


Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.07.2013 , 05:40 AM | #43
Just a thought, but its my opinion that there are three types of Sith

Raw Sith: Those Sith who have completely embraced their emotions to the point where their emotions and the dark side controls them, dominates them and turns them into its own weapon. They are basically slaves to its will and lash out at anything and everything, they have no real plans or goals they just want to kill and destroy. Perfect examples of these would be Sion and Nihilus. Savage and Maul can also be considered to be 'raw Sith'.

Focused Sith: Those Sith who have honed their emotions and have some measure of control over them, however they are still driven by the dark side and corrupted by it. They are not mindless killers, but the dark side often takes over their will and drives them to seek power for powers sake. Examples of these would be most Sith such as Exar Kun, Dooku, Revan & Malak and even Sidious. They all sought power for powers sake.

Uber-Focused Sith: Very few Sith achieve this stage. These Sith have completely and utterly mastered their emotions. It is not the dark side that drives them, but their own will, they set out their own goals and plans, not the dark sides. They don't collect power for powers sake, they have a mission, and the dark side is just a way of achieving it. I can only really think of two examples of this, Darth Traya and Darth Vectivus. IMO all Sith should strive to achieve this position, otherwise the dark side will corrupt them and they will become its weapon, rather than the dark side being there's.

Insane Sith:A special category for Sith who have become so obsessed with attaining power and preserving it that they exist to do nothing else, all traces of their personality have been wiped clean. They are just power hungry maniacs beset with paranoia and a desire for more power. As you would expect, the Sith Emperor fits this category perfectly.

Vlad_Dracul_'s Avatar


Vlad_Dracul_
01.07.2013 , 01:35 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Just a thought, but its my opinion that there are three types of Sith
Good categories. However, amongst uber-focused Sith I missing Darth Bane, who is considered to be a Sith'ari.
Siths consumed by the Dark Side are just pawns to manipulate and kill, like Tyranus' bunch of Sith pets. Better self-control means tougher Sith and better chance to achieve the title of the Dark Lord. Always.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.07.2013 , 02:13 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul_ View Post
Good categories. However, amongst uber-focused Sith I missing Darth Bane, who is considered to be a Sith'ari.
Siths consumed by the Dark Side are just pawns to manipulate and kill, like Tyranus' bunch of Sith pets. Better self-control means tougher Sith and better chance to achieve the title of the Dark Lord. Always.
The fact is you have to look at it from a ideological perspective as well. Bane very much mastered his emotions, but not fully. After all what was the purpose of the 'Grand Plan', the 'Order of the Sith Lords'? To destroy the Jedi and place the Sith as sole rulers of the galaxy? Why? For what goal? Bane wasn't opposed to the corruption of the Republic, or a staunch believer in the effectiveness of authoritarian rules. He had no political goals or aspirations, and wasn't interested in achieving peace, or greater good for the galaxy. He just wanted power and lots of it, to fuel his dark side passions. In such a sense, the dark side controlled him.

I also think at least from an ideological standpoint, Vader would be in this 3rd section. Purely because he actually believed in the values of the Empire, and actually wanted peace for the galaxy. I don't believe he fell to the dark side for power, he fell because he wanted to save the woman he loved, and after that so he could achieve a government that he had always believed necessary for effective rulership in the galaxy. But he didn't achieve full control of his emotions, hence his rash move to kill Padme, that was the dark side controlling him. And after that is was as much coincidence than strength of will that made Vader believe strongly in the ideals of the Galactic Empire.

I'm also debating whether Plagueis should be up there. He did use the dark side as a tool to achieve knowledge of the Force, but that was more a hobby, his goal was the same as all the other Sith Lords. To destroy the Jedi and take control of the Republic. IMO that is not truly his goal, that's the dark side talking. Same for Bane. I mean if you strip away the dark side, would they be the same? What has Bane of Plagueis got against the Republic? Or the Jedi? Nothing I can really think of.

However Uber-Focused Sith doesn't = uber powerful. Traya was a formidable Sith Lord but she wasn't the strongest. In fact I think you need a trace of the light in you to achieve such focus, Jedi preached control over emotions, while Sith embraced them. This is why its very difficult, especially for powerful Sith, to control their emotions, without not using them. But if they don't fully control their emotions, their emotions will always partially control them. So I'd put Bane and Plagueis in category 2. I don't think many Sith ever achieved category 3. (Actually I remember one Sith Lord called Darth Vectivus, he was just a buisness man who used the dark side, he never let it control him) But yes, in order to become a true Dark Lord of the Sith you need to focus your power. But not even Darth Bane could achieve uber-focus. If anything the prophecy worked against him, as 'Sith'ari' he has already been labelled as chief weapon of the dark side.

captaincr's Avatar


captaincr
01.07.2013 , 05:28 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by FINNT View Post
"Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to sufferinggg."
Don't let yourself get seduced by the narrow dogmatic view of the jedi council. In order to be a great leader one most understand all sides of the puzzle.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to POWER UNLIMITED POWER

captaincr's Avatar


captaincr
01.07.2013 , 05:30 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by captaincr View Post
Don't let yourself get seduced by the narrow dogmatic view of the jedi council. In order to be a great leader one most understand all sides of the puzzle.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to POWER UNLIMITED POWER
Except Bane knew that he had no political aspirations, he knew that he was merely the first step in the Sith's revenge against the Jedi, he knew that his job was to begin the long gathering of knowledge and the creation of the levers that would eventually create the downfall of the republic and the Jedi Order.

He knew his place within the darkside and that made him different from all of the other Sith Lords who eventually tried to seize power in the mundane world.

Vlad_Dracul_'s Avatar


Vlad_Dracul_
01.07.2013 , 05:57 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by captaincr View Post
Don't let yourself get seduced by the narrow dogmatic view of the jedi council. In order to be a great leader one most understand all sides of the puzzle.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to POWER UNLIMITED POWER
Jedi code seems as a logical failure, cause 'knowledge is power' without doubts. Vision of perfect Jedi is mindless robot doing 'good' things indoctrinated to their minds as software in droids. Vision of perfect Sith is free being controlling the Dark Side to achieve his goals. So obviously, Sith code much more appreciates personal qualities and capabilities, so from philosophic and psychologic point of view is superior.

Rauzgriz's Avatar


Rauzgriz
01.07.2013 , 08:26 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul_ View Post
Good categories. However, amongst uber-focused Sith I missing Darth Bane, who is considered to be a Sith'ari.]
Personally I believe Bane is between the second and third categories. His aspirations and goals are in the third category, as he knew he could never be the one to take control of the galaxy for the Sith, and everything he did was to set up the new Sith order for a long and slow rise to power. But for his fighting, and short term goals, he was definitely more of the second category, as it's described in the books that he often went into an uncontrollable battle rage, and had trouble controlling his anger, even in the third book. Though mostly in the first and second books, the second especially, for reasons that the readers of the book should remember quite well.

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
01.07.2013 , 11:44 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
Anger greatly diminishes ones focus and mental performance and consequently increases chance for errors.
Only if you let yourself be controlled by it,which is not the way of the sith.The way of the sith is to use it and direct it as you wish,to sometimes channel the force more effectively.
Successful Sith are not slaves to their emotions,they use them.