Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Where are these 'ultra powerful low timer cooldowns' you speak of?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Where are these 'ultra powerful low timer cooldowns' you speak of?

Darth_Bond's Avatar


Darth_Bond
01.02.2013 , 12:49 PM | #1
I keep hearing people blaber on and on about the great low cd defensive cooldowns that sin tanks have, where are these magical cooldowns that make us viable and special? Iv only seen one, dark ward, i looked at all the spells sins get till 50, there are no more....the rest are just the same as the cooldowns jugs and vanguards get...same timers...same cooldowns....and i mean the defensive cooldowns, wither doesnt count, its just a threat generator...
Story is so important i sold starwars to disney and asked jj abrams to direct the new star wars film....and that is why we cant have faction change!

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
01.02.2013 , 01:01 PM | #2
Haven't played a sin or shadow, but I think resilience and force shroud are the big ones. Not sure what other cool downs they get.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.02.2013 , 01:34 PM | #3
Resilience is on a 60 sec base CD and gets reduces to ~45 sec CD in actual play and it provides you with 200% Resistance chance for 5 seconds. Deflection is on a 120 sec CD and provides you with 50% Defense for 12 seconds.

Compare this to Reactive Shield, which is on a 2 min CD, but only provides 25% DR for 12 seconds (the same uptime as Deflection, lower than Resilience, and provides less mitigation than either). Saber Ward and Warding Call are both on 180 sec CDs; even combined, they provide less mitigation than Deflection and Resilience provide.

The Shadow CDs are well and truly amazing. They've got low CDs (120 seconds and ~45 seconds compared to 120 second, or 180 seconds and 180 seconds) and they're just as powerful as full tank CDs. Their only "weakness" is that they're specific. Reactive Shield is on a short CD but it's weakness is that it's the weakest of the tank CDs (not to mention that it's the only true tank CD that VGs get). Saber Ward is amazing (Deflection with a little bit of Resilience added), but it's on a 3 min CD (which is "long"); Warding Call is largely mediocre (it's 40% DR post mitigation, not pre-mitigation like Reactive Shield) and it's also on a 3 min CD.
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
01.02.2013 , 01:46 PM | #4
Reactive shield isn't that bad. Ends up being almost 60% reduction instead of 25% in damage taken (character shed DR goes from 56% (with healer armor bonus) to 81%). However it's only a 30% reduction to into/else damage.

And oil spill is effectively 20% defense on a ~30% uptime. Also can be used when you are not tanking, as, funnily enough, it'll do more for your sin/jugg cotank than it will for you due to their better defense.



None of this goes against sin/shadow CD's being better, but I think the weakness for VG/PT is rather their vulnerability to int/ele damage, especially for cool downs, as our cool downs do much less and nothing against that damage.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
01.02.2013 , 01:54 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by OlosBC View Post
Reactive shield isn't that bad. Ends up being almost 60% reduction instead of 25% in damage taken (character shed DR goes from 56% (with healer armor bonus) to 81%). However it's only a 30% reduction to into/else damage.

And oil spill is effectively 20% defense on a ~30% uptime. Also can be used when you are not tanking, as, funnily enough, it'll do more for your sin/jugg cotank than it will for you due to their better defense.



None of this goes against sin/shadow CD's being better, but I think the weakness for VG/PT is rather their vulnerability to int/ele damage, especially for cool downs, as our cool downs do much less and nothing against that damage.
I agree with you there if i hit my Oil Slick while my juggy co-tank is tanking Foreman Crusher while he frenzies he gets hit maybe 3 times the entire frenzy. Also it is underrated cd i notice a lot looking back at logs i do dodge a fair amount of incoming attacks while its active

I do have a sin aswell and i'll tell you hands down Force Shroud is without a doubt the most useful CD in the game. Can bypass so much dmg in so many fights. Toths aoe jump- negated by force shroud, the lighting phase in TFB HM Dread Guard fight all dmg -negated, hoping back up on to SC tank and your healers is Los bang 5 secs of no dmg, karagga aoe taunt all the mous droids and force shroud no dmg, assassin droids on the puzzle in EC.... Those are only a few example but in almost every end game fight there is a use for it that allows you to avoid tons of incoming damage if used at the right points.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.02.2013 , 02:24 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by OlosBC View Post
Reactive shield isn't that bad. Ends up being almost 60% reduction instead of 25% in damage taken (character shed DR goes from 56% (with healer armor bonus) to 81%). However it's only a 30% reduction to into/else damage.
Compare Reactive Shield's 25% DR to Deflection or Saber Ward's 50% Defense: 25% additional DR equates to ~50% improved survivability; 50% additional Defense equates to ~140% improved survivability.

Quote:
And oil spill is effectively 20% defense on a ~30% uptime. Also can be used when you are not tanking, as, funnily enough, it'll do more for your sin/jugg cotank than it will for you due to their better defense.
Oil Spill/Smoke Screen isn't really a survivability CD; it's the mechanical equivalent of the 5% acc debuff that both Guardians and Shadows get that VGs don't. It provides some marginal additional survivability when you use it in combination with another tank (since you're getting 5% at all times and 20% for 30% of the time), but, on their own, the two are a wash (and this is assuming that you use Smoke Screen on CD).
Walls of Text? I *love* Walls of Text!
My New Class Idea
Shadow Class Rep - Suggest/Review Questions Here
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
Listen to Kitru. Kitru knows all.

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
01.02.2013 , 03:19 PM | #7
Ah Yea that makes sense. Works out to a bit more that 5% if used on CD, but not by much. Guardians don't get the damage reduction though, but I'm fairly certain the accuracy reduction is better anyway. Have always been jealous of sins getting both debuffs.

I still enjoy facetanking on the ptech tho, especially as I don't tank as main spec anymore, so its nice and easy when I do have to switch over and tank if someone doesn't show.
Olos - 55 Hybrid Powertech
Fonia - 55 Madness Sorceror
<Dark Fury> of Jedi Covenant
Previously Fonia and Daygoru of Tempest server in SWG.

MantorokTwelve's Avatar


MantorokTwelve
01.02.2013 , 03:22 PM | #8
Force shroud is one of the best cooldowns in the game. Immunity to force and tech, conditional cleanse, and immunity to most effects. If used correctly, it works as a second CC break, a knockback preventative, and damage immunity to the most common (and powerful) damage in raids. Deflection honestly doesn't seem as useful to me, outside of maybe the writhing horror, Ciphas of the dread guard (since he's SO HARD to tank) and terror from beyond (which is also easy to tank, even through the burn phase). The most annoying boss for me to tank as a sin is Kephess the Undying, since he does so much tech physical damage, so my defense and IE resistance don't mean crap.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.04.2013 , 02:56 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Bond View Post
I keep hearing people blaber on and on about the great low cd defensive cooldowns that sin tanks have, where are these magical cooldowns that make us viable and special? Iv only seen one, dark ward, i looked at all the spells sins get till 50, there are no more....the rest are just the same as the cooldowns jugs and vanguards get...same timers...same cooldowns....and i mean the defensive cooldowns, wither doesnt count, its just a threat generator...
Altogether, assassins have 4 defensive cooldowns: Deflection (weapon damage), Force Shroud (tech damage), Overload Saber (lockout-free medpack), and Force Cloak. I use Overload Saber fairly aggressively, and I'm always surprised at assassin/shadow tanks who don't. Force Cloak is another uncommon one, but primarily due to the fact that it debuffs healing. It has to be used very carefully with full knowledge of what you're about to do to your party. I use it absolutely every time I tank NiM Kephess (twice in the same fight if my co-tank dies in the last phase). Similarly, I use it every time on NiM Toth and Zorn (to reset the medpack lockout), fairly frequently on HM Dread Guard, and every time on HM Writhing Horror (to avoid pulling off my co-tank at the start). Also, there's all the situational uses when you need to get someone up and the battle rez is down.

No question though, the bread and butter is Deflection and Force Shroud. Use and abuse the heck out of those cooldowns. A huge part of what separates good assassin tanks from great ones is an active knowledge of the specific fight and the timing of relevant damage (e.g. Force Shroud right before Savage Wounding is applied on NiM Kephess).
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

ThePasserby's Avatar


ThePasserby
01.05.2013 , 06:11 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
A huge part of what separates good assassin tanks from great ones is an active knowledge of the specific fight and the timing of relevant damage (e.g. Force Shroud right before Savage Wounding is applied on NiM Kephess).
Indeed, and I've yet to get a handle on this. Is there a guide written specifically for Shadow tanks that advises on when to use Resilience on certain bosses' attacks?