Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Wittand's Avatar


Wittand
01.04.2013 , 06:45 PM | #5011
@SirGladiator
The first paragraph is not true (not to mention a bit silly considering all three ME games give the option for a female Shepard to hook up with a female). And most of the times you see maliciousness in the statements of developers it is simply not there (not to mention that you attribute some of the statement to wrong persons, Shepard is straight is from one of the doctors. As far as same sex romances goes they were never planned for ME2, which is rather obvious if you consider the dialog structure, since SGRA´s require gender checks in all the dialog but in ME2 there is only one or two checks at the end of the regular story progression to determine if a romance starts or not. With this kind of programming allowing romances for different genders is not possible, or at least rather expensive.

As far as the second paragraph is concerned. Sure it would be easy if you want a hack job that screws up the game .
Not only would some dialog be completely out of place for the wrong gender. But chancing the existing companions also alters the number of possible LIs, and therefore requires new jealousy dialog. Since males and females have different models all interactions need to be revised. Not to mention other things like localization, getting all the voice actors back to record new dialog and several other things.
Changing the existing companions is a very big task, and it is rather unrealistic to expect that to happen before the first major expansion.

rywokast's Avatar


rywokast
01.04.2013 , 07:27 PM | #5012
Hell yes! I want to have a same sex relationship with my companion characters I dont wan to be in a relationship with a girl

LadyDrusilla's Avatar


LadyDrusilla
01.04.2013 , 07:46 PM | #5013
Game development is not a zero-sum process, the idea that having a few script writers, coders and sound technicians working on SGR is going to be impacting on the coding and art resources of a flash point is damned ridiculous. I'm sure like most developers the development team is divided into teams who are given tasks and when one is completed they move onto the next.

This isn't to say that adding SGRs won't take considerable time and energy from the development team, but I find the idea that if BW pulled the plug on it they could get an extra flashpoint sooner completely insupportable.

I also don't follow the logic that just because flash points, warzones and operations are important to a healthy end-game EVERYTHING else should be ignored.
This blonde loves her Hutts, the bigger, the better.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
01.04.2013 , 08:04 PM | #5014
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyDrusilla View Post
Game development is not a zero-sum process, the idea that having a few script writers, coders and sound technicians working on SGR is going to be impacting on the coding and art resources of a flash point is damned ridiculous. I'm sure like most developers the development team is divided into teams who are given tasks and when one is completed they move onto the next.

This isn't to say that adding SGRs won't take considerable time and energy from the development team, but I find the idea that if BW pulled the plug on it they could get an extra flashpoint sooner completely insupportable.

I also don't follow the logic that just because flash points, warzones and operations are important to a healthy end-game EVERYTHING else should be ignored.
With the Makeb SGRA flirts, I'm sure they are also open for OGRA and were developed together. If this takes away from any other content, it would be other possible minor Makeb storyline content.
Node guarder

JediMB's Avatar


JediMB
01.04.2013 , 08:56 PM | #5015
Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
You don't really get much conversation with Jack in ME3, I think the 'girls club' thing is about gossip and such, its so innocuous I can't even remember if its in ME2 or ME3. She isn't straight, and she doesn't 'shoot down' FemShep, they just cut out the romance at the last minute so her conversations just abruptly end. Kind've like with Tali, who tells FemShep she wants to sleep with her (her species version of it anyway) and FemShep simply isn't given a chance to respond, again because the head ME guy forced them to take her romance with FemShep out of the game.
Well, every single friendship path in ME2, regardless of Shepard's sex, seems to just abruptly end. This isn't necessarily because there was romance planned there, but rather because they wrote the resolution to most of the companion's stories as part of the romance arc and didn't have anything left for the friendships. So unless the romance is triggered, Jack just tells Shepard she doesn't want to talk anymore.

As for Tali, I recall her line about suit-linking being slightly different for FemShep than ManShep, but I could be wrong. Either way, suit-linking isn't just something for the romantically involved, but also for quarians with very close platonic relationships, so it doesn't mean Tali wants to sleep with her.

That said, if DA2-esque gender-irrelevant romances were at one point planned for ME2, that would explain a lot. Well, at least for the female love interests, since they're the only ones who have FemShep romance dialogue in Lair of the Shadow Broker's conversations between Shepard and Liara.

That just makes me wonder if the lesbian romances were cut because someone didn't want them there, or if they were cut to avoid backlash about the lack of gay romances for the male Shepard.

Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
This is the way a few at the top of Bioware operate, the VAST majority support SGRs, but like, the head of ME forcing them to remove all the SGRs from ME2, and the head of SWTOR not allowing any, they're in the minority in the company, but they have all the power in every franchise except DA right now. The head of the ME series was so hilariously bad at defending his decision (first it was because he 'wrote Shepard as straight', which was obviously untrue because in ME Shepard could be a lesbian, then he was asked specificly about why FemShep players couldn't romance Tali, he said it was because he wanted the romance to be 'fun and innocent', that one reached new heights of insanity and offensiveness, I think he stopped even trying to make excuses after that, thats why he put in NPC romances in ME3, hoping to get folks off his back and make him look 'inclusive', while keeping all the female teammate LIs (except Liara, who had been available from the beginning) from FemShep in ME3 just like he did in ME2. The only actual teammate LI he added, and only because he had to add one, was a dude, and of course the only reason he did that is because that dude was dead for the vast majority of players.
Let's not forget that time someone said that Asari technically weren't female, despite the codex clearly stating that they are (and that they're are basically blue women with tentacles on their heads).

Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
Obviously the statement about it being 'much harder than he realized' to implement SGRs with current companions is untrue, because you just have to get rid of the gender checks, its one of the easiest changes they could possibly make to the game. But at least there was enough pressure that he felt the need to make something up. Hopefully we can keep up the pressure until finally he relents, pretends he worked REALLY REALLY hard to add them to the game, and does away with the gender checks so we can finally enjoy the romances. People will think he worked for over a year instead of the hours or days it actually takes to make the changes, he will look like a hero, and we'll all be winners.
I think I mentioned this earlier, but regardless... I'm certain the real reason we're not getting companion SGR (yet?) is because of just how far below expectations SWTOR's performance has been. The game is still in full damage control mode, where EA is doing its best to (short-term) generate as much income as possible at minimized costs.

Which makes me wonder why the Cathar species is taking so long to implement. Are they adding new dialogue to go with the species, or something? Because otherwise it should be ridiculously easy to implement, and it's pretty much the one thing I'm actually willing to pay for on the Cartel Market.
The Morrowbringer Legacy The Red Eclipse (PvE) [EU]
Deep into that darkness peering, you reach out your hand and grasp what you are searching for.
Now ring the bells that sweep away the darkness; the bells that beckon tomorrow's dawn.

LadyDrusilla's Avatar


LadyDrusilla
01.04.2013 , 09:17 PM | #5016
Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
Obviously the statement about it being 'much harder than he realized' to implement SGRs with current companions is untrue, because you just have to get rid of the gender checks, its one of the easiest changes they could possibly make to the game.
So you're saying that getting rid of gender checks will create new fully voiced gender specific conversation choices automatically? Wow.

Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
Let's not forget that time someone said that Asari technically weren't female, despite the codex clearly stating that they are (and that they're are basically blue women with tentacles on their heads)..
Well, while the codex does indeed state that they are sexually female, Liara describes them as mon-gendered in ME1 with no concept of gender differences and that she is 'not precisely a woman'. So the confusion is understandable.
This blonde loves her Hutts, the bigger, the better.

Samy_Merchi's Avatar


Samy_Merchi
01.04.2013 , 10:49 PM | #5017
My interpretation of the State of Game is that there won't be any meaningful level of SGR in the game for the foreseeable future.

I'll live with that. I don't like it, in fact I'm a little angry about it, but I'll live with it. I guess now I just have to decide whether to play girls and not have romance at all, or romance girls and have to look at a yucky guy in all my cutscenes.

If they ever offer pay to gay though I will pay for it since it'd make my game experience so much better.

Syvach's Avatar


Syvach
01.04.2013 , 11:09 PM | #5018
Quote: Originally Posted by SirGladiator View Post
Obviously the statement about it being 'much harder than he realized' to implement SGRs with current companions is untrue, because you just have to get rid of the gender checks, its one of the easiest changes they could possibly make to the game.
That sound you hear is my exasperated sigh. There's no way it's as simple as you suggest. There's far more to it than just removing gender checks. For just a moment, let's pretend like some of the lines in Romance dialogues would be confusing, if not downright insulting, in an SGR romance. Let's also forget that even in non-romance dialogues and cutscenes there are several uses of simple words like "she, he, him, her" that require a gender check. Ignore that male and female models are different and won't match up during cutscenes because two male or two female models aren't coded to kiss.

No, we don't even have to consider all of that because there is one huge element that you obviously haven't even considered: Romance conversations take two people. Even though your companion will have something to say, your character will be MUTE. There are no voices recorded for SGR interactions for current companions! If you just get rid of gender checks (which is probably far more coding than you imagine), then through all those scenes you won't say ANYTHING.

So even if all the tech was already in place, even if the companion vocals were fine for both genders, Bioware still needs to get 16 VAs back to record all new vocals for two genders for every class. That's not a small task especially with everything else they have been working on with FTP and Makeb. Yeesh.

Samy_Merchi's Avatar


Samy_Merchi
01.04.2013 , 11:30 PM | #5019
Another aspect that complicates things that may have been mentioned before but not often, is romance conflict dialogues.

When you have two romanceable companions, there's only one potential conflict dialogue.

When you can romance four companions on a single character, that's what, six conflict dialogues.

There's a Vette/Jaesa one to start with, but there is no Vette/Quinn conflict dialogue, or Jaesa/Quinn conflict dialogue, so ones would arguably need to be written from scratch. I don't remember if Pierce is fully romanceable but if he is, then you'd also need Pierce/Vette and Pierce/Jaesa conflicts written.

Multiply this for every class.

I can see how SGR for companions could be a lot of work if you wanted to do it properly.

Just saying, though. Doesn't mean I'm happy about it.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
01.05.2013 , 06:02 AM | #5020
Quote: Originally Posted by Lillark View Post
The key point few are talking about is that SGR's are NOT coming to the game. They are going to be SOLD to players in the expansion, not in the basic, free to play game. If they were for sale in the cartel shop would that be any different? It's separate and unequal treatment.
I'm not seeing them as the SGRA's I've been waiting for - they're [Flirt]s with world NPCs I'm likely only to ever see once.

That's why I'm unsatisfied with Hickman's announcement (or at least, part of the reason - he didn't even acknowledge the terrible way this entire subject has been handled and how discriminatory the entire situation is), but also why I'm not that upset that they have to paid for - they're [Flirt]s on Makeb, as part of a mini-expansion. It's not as if I'm having to pay for a "gay upgrade" for Vector, or a "plus lesbians!" additions for my Juggernaut - that I would be pissed about and it would probably cause me to come down on BW:Austin like a tonne of bricks.