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Hardmode "manners"


DSpectre's Avatar


DSpectre
01.04.2013 , 02:22 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Never_Hesitate View Post
The problem is that if the weakest link is a DPS it can easily be replaced in a few seconds.

When I tank a FP HM I ask at the start if it's anyones first time and if they want to watch the story.
The people who do not answer there have no right to watch the storys and I will not explain the bosses to them.

When a player accidently adds a group I have no problem with it but if he adds repeatedly from just not being capable to follow me I will initiate a vote kick.
(If you get stuck it's a whole other thing. I sometimes get stuck in the most ridicoulos things. I have never kicked somebody for getting stuck and through that add mobs.)

The reason nr. 1 for me to kick people is: People not knowing their role.
A DPS who repeatedly pulls groups is a kicked DPS for me. (1st time: Tell him not to do it again. 2nd time: kick)
yeah i got stuck twice, and pulled a group once. so as to why i get kicked for it, idk.

and i know my role well, i usually follow the tank. i never pull a group unless its by accident.
"Who I am is not important, my message is."
―Revan

Tromador's Avatar


Tromador
01.04.2013 , 05:34 AM | #32
If it's my first time in any given HM, I tell the group right at the start. I know my class and my rotations, but not the specific boss fights. Taking this approach I've never had any problems and someone in the group has always been happy to stop and explain the fights in advance - which saves on the wipes.

Secondly, I won't do a HM if I've not done it SM.

That said, in the various groups I've enjoyed, everyone has made a rogue pull at some point or another and the group simply turns around, clears it and then gets back on with it, probably trying to skip as much trash as possible. There's rarely an issue with this - everyone makes the odd mistake.

Of course I'm on a different server (Progenitor). The more I read in these forums, the more I start to feel that mine is perhaps a more considerate community than some.

Screamo's Avatar


Screamo
01.04.2013 , 06:22 AM | #33
I've had really mixed experiences using GF for HM FP's.

I've had people pretty much Insta-kick me without explanation but i've also had frank but friendly chats with my team mates about what isnt working, why and what I need to do to improve.

I think the best thing that we can do is find a like-minded guild. That way, you get to know the people you're running with and you can decide amongst yourselves how each run should go regarding story skipping, mob skipping etc.

Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
01.04.2013 , 06:31 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by DSpectre View Post
yeah i got stuck twice, and pulled a group once. so as to why i get kicked for it, idk.

and i know my role well, i usually follow the tank. i never pull a group unless its by accident.
I forgot to add one thing.
Communication is key, someone who adds and after the mobs are dead, just writes nothing gets a vote kick from me as well. A small sry is enough for me but something has to be there.
T3-M4 - Lvl 55 Chars:
T'hana Jugg, Saleona Sniper, S'inthoras Mara,Hannahla Merc, Eleondra&Eleondraa Ops,
Leeonira Sorc, CaphalÝr Sorc, Kindarya Assa, LeoniŽ PT,
Revuna Mando, Leojuna Scoundrel, Simon'e Shadow, Sileona Guardian

Sydexlic's Avatar


Sydexlic
01.04.2013 , 06:46 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by DSpectre View Post
So this is a bit of a rant:

(SHORT VERSION AT BOTTOM)

Today i spent a total of 5 hours waiting for flashpoint groups to join and do hard mode stuff.

I managed to get into 9 Flashpoint groups and it seems to me i find the few people that should not play games.

they are:
A: inconsiderate
B: Ignorant
C: Uncooperative
D: Whiny

Now i will describe one story which drew the line for me:

I joined a flashpoint group which seemed to be going pretty smooth, but no one seemed to talk and i just got a feeling of awkwardness and tension.

they skipped by alot of enemies without telling me which threw me off a bit because ive always tackled every enemy in the way. but it didnt matter much because i was far enough back to react to this. I got caught up on a cliff and they just kept going. Now isnt it common courtesy to help group-mates out?

so after getting un-stuck, i rushed to catch up, and i managed to accidently cause an attack on myself and i ran towards my group for help. a person in the group right away said "dont run towards us" now... isnt the whole point of a team effort to help each-other out? so i decided to dis-regard what they were saying and run towards them for help.

to shorten, we ended up dying and respawning back to the start. not too far from where we died. two group mates immediately trashed my actions saying "they should force people to play these before doing hardmode". that irked me a bit and i felt bad. another thing that ticked me off, is that no matter what, i like to enjoy the convo-cinematics and i will listen to the characters talk. during this, one anxious groupmate kept spamming "SPACEBAR! HIT THE F****** SPACEBAR!". And after the convo said "they should just remove story stuff from hard mode... saves on time to rush through". pretty ignorant and self-serving, huh?

and to finish, i accidentally pulled 3-4 very easy (like 3000 hp) droids over and got yelled at for pulling enemies to them because i needed help. then after that fight, i was voted to be kicked out.





So since i hit 50 for the first time yesterday, i have attempted to do hard mode flashpoints and never completed one because i keep finding these types of people who are insanely competitive. i have gotten kicked every single time because of things i have no control over. and so what if i want to listen to a convo? im interested and the people can wait like one minute. not that bad.


SHORT VERSION:

Im tired of how stuck-up people are during hard-mode flashpoints. worrying about for fast to get through a convo, or about accidentally pulling a few enemies to the group for help. and i get kicked for all these dumb reasons


So what im saying here is, do you agree with this arrogant play-style? or do you think there should be more co-operative-ness (i know thats not a word) in these hard-mode flashpoints?

i can honestly say i'd like to think people are nicer than this but im about to give up on humanity over this
So, basically, you didn't keep up with the group. You then face pulled several packs of mobs, then, because you think your time to be worth more than the 3 others in the group, you sat through every conversation, even though you too have seen them several times. Who's being a) inconsiderate and c) uncooperative now?

You also have d) covered by starting this thread.

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
01.04.2013 , 10:55 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by DSpectre View Post
So this is a bit of a rant:

(SHORT VERSION AT BOTTOM)

Today i spent a total of 5 hours waiting for flashpoint groups to join and do hard mode stuff.

I managed to get into 9 Flashpoint groups and it seems to me i find the few people that should not play games.

they are:
A: inconsiderate
B: Ignorant
C: Uncooperative
D: Whiny

Now i will describe one story which drew the line for me:

I joined a flashpoint group which seemed to be going pretty smooth, but no one seemed to talk and i just got a feeling of awkwardness and tension.

they skipped by alot of enemies without telling me which threw me off a bit because ive always tackled every enemy in the way. but it didnt matter much because i was far enough back to react to this. I got caught up on a cliff and they just kept going. Now isnt it common courtesy to help group-mates out?

so after getting un-stuck, i rushed to catch up, and i managed to accidently cause an attack on myself and i ran towards my group for help. a person in the group right away said "dont run towards us" now... isnt the whole point of a team effort to help each-other out? so i decided to dis-regard what they were saying and run towards them for help.

to shorten, we ended up dying and respawning back to the start. not too far from where we died. two group mates immediately trashed my actions saying "they should force people to play these before doing hardmode". that irked me a bit and i felt bad. another thing that ticked me off, is that no matter what, i like to enjoy the convo-cinematics and i will listen to the characters talk. during this, one anxious groupmate kept spamming "SPACEBAR! HIT THE F****** SPACEBAR!". And after the convo said "they should just remove story stuff from hard mode... saves on time to rush through". pretty ignorant and self-serving, huh?

and to finish, i accidentally pulled 3-4 very easy (like 3000 hp) droids over and got yelled at for pulling enemies to them because i needed help. then after that fight, i was voted to be kicked out.





So since i hit 50 for the first time yesterday, i have attempted to do hard mode flashpoints and never completed one because i keep finding these types of people who are insanely competitive. i have gotten kicked every single time because of things i have no control over. and so what if i want to listen to a convo? im interested and the people can wait like one minute. not that bad.


SHORT VERSION:

Im tired of how stuck-up people are during hard-mode flashpoints. worrying about for fast to get through a convo, or about accidentally pulling a few enemies to the group for help. and i get kicked for all these dumb reasons


So what im saying here is, do you agree with this arrogant play-style? or do you think there should be more co-operative-ness (i know thats not a word) in these hard-mode flashpoints?

i can honestly say i'd like to think people are nicer than this but im about to give up on humanity over this
I admit I myself am getting unreasonably angry when people make pulls by mistake. I try to control myself and not lash out for the first few mistakes but after a while it really gets to you. Any player in the group should learn to follow the tank, attack weakest first, do not break cc's and if the mentioned run is speed should not pull unnecessary mobs or bosses. The worst part is those who tell you that they know encounters but have no clue whatsoever about them. I have had players refuse to use their knockbacks in Darth Malgus because it's a "cheap tactic" and that the intended play should be to knock him back by only using bombs. It can drive you insane. If someone wants to kill X boss, kill bonus boss or watch the story just saying that you want to do as such up front does wonders. I don't mind those that don't skip conversations except in Esseles where they are overused and really makes a big difference. I also don't think it's your fault at all that you got stuck, it happens every so often and I totally sympathize with you on that if someone accidentally pulled a mob heck, 10 mobs, due to being stuck and we wiped I wouldn't mind at all, **** happens. It is refusal to cooperate, refusal to learn and refusal to communicate that ruins flashpoint experience for me.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
01.04.2013 , 11:03 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Ephesia View Post
I have had players refuse to use their knockbacks in Darth Malgus because it's a "cheap tactic" and that the intended play should be to knock him back by only using bombs.
w t f? How unpractical can someone get?
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T'hana Jugg, Saleona Sniper, S'inthoras Mara,Hannahla Merc, Eleondra&Eleondraa Ops,
Leeonira Sorc, CaphalÝr Sorc, Kindarya Assa, LeoniŽ PT,
Revuna Mando, Leojuna Scoundrel, Simon'e Shadow, Sileona Guardian

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
01.04.2013 , 11:05 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Never_Hesitate View Post
w t f? How unpractical can someone get?
Wiped once because of that ridiculousness, had to run back and use several bombs with the other guy in the group to get it done. He was badly positioned at start but it was salvageable if this guy wasn't so stuck up with his "no knockbacking mobs down ledges" policy. Obviously ignored after the fp ended.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

TherealDUKE's Avatar


TherealDUKE
01.04.2013 , 11:06 AM | #39
If you get vote kicked more than once you should ask yourself what your doing wrong. If you get kicked from every group in a day you should get someone to tell you what your doing wrong. If more than 3 random people tell you your doing everything wrong and you still think everyone else is the ***hole you should quit. You won't enjoy it and everyone else will not enjoy being around you.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.04.2013 , 12:22 PM | #40
I will admit to my fair share of HM elitism and exasperation with newbies: I tell people to spacebar rather than watching cutscenes, facepalm when someone pulls a skippable trashpack, and prefer speedruns to full clears, sometimes bailing out if I don't feel like doing them and the rest of the group does (I generally play tanks or healers, so this nets me a number of enemies amongst the DPS queueing crowd). I've even been known to /kick people that don't use the proper rotation for their spec (like DPS Shadows using Telekinetic Throw) or are using an explicitly PvP spec in PvE (like the hybrid tank spec for Shadows queuing as either DPS or tank) and, if they don't get kicked, bailing out myself because it perturbs me to be around idiots (I'll generally try to correct them by telling them that they're doing it wrong for numerous reasons that I explicitly point out, but, if they insist on being bullheaded about it because "they read about it online" when I know, for a fact, that the only place they could have read about it was somewhere that had no clue what they were talking about or they misread it or whatever, I've got no problem putting them on ignore and going about my way).

However...

If someone says that the *beginning* of an HM flashpoint that they don't know what they're doing or respond the affirmative to my start-of-flashpoint query of, "Do we all know what we're doing here?", I'm not going to bail on them just because they're fresh. I will explain the skip path and show them in painstaking detail what they should be doing. I will explain all of the boss fights and, if needed, the proper kill order.

If someone tells me that they need instruction *after* they have pulled something that could have been skipped or died on a boss because they screwed up a mechanic or whatever else I could get irate about, I'm going to get irate about it.

As a new player in a game where a vast majority of players have already done all of the content such that they could do it in their sleep, it's *your* responsibility to point out that you don't know what you're doing. Very few groups are going to kick you just because you don't know what you're doing in an HM FP (unless it's HM LI and you're both inexperienced *and* under or marginally geared); most will actually attempt to teach you because it's faster than simply finding someone new. This doesn't mean that they're beholden to it just because you're new or that your newness excuses any errors *before* you tell them you're new. Expecting experienced players to patiently teach anyone and everyone they come across on the off chance that they might be new is simply outrageous. A vast majority of players will know exactly how to skip all of the trash packs in HM T5 and how to run the ice path in BoI.

Asking for forgiveness is *not* easier than asking for permission. People might get a bit irksome when they learn that they're stuck with a newbie but they're going to get a lot more pissed when the newbie tries to pass themselves off as a proficient player and ends up causing the lot of them more work because the newbie didn't want to admit that they didn't know what they were doing.

This same mentality applies to watching the cut scenes: if you want to watch them, tell people *at the start* that you plan on watching them. If people are prepared to sit there waiting and they know who they're waiting on, they're much less likely to get pissed off about it. Of course, if it's Esseles and everyone else wants to just get it over with because you can just see the story by taking 10 minutes of your time to solo it and the cutscenes end up doubling the time it takes to finish the rutting place, it's not really conducive to group happiness to ignore everyone else.

The best advice that anyone can possibly give you is to tell people about your lack of experience and/or desire to watch the cutscenes right from the start *especially* if you're asked, that way, people don't expect anything that they're not getting and they know *right away* that they should be teaching/helping you so as to avoid screw ups. If you don't tell anyone about your lack of experience or desire to watch the story, don't get indignant just because you couldn't see what to do close enough or because you haven't seen this story before and they were screaming at you to hurry up; you're causing more work for them and *aren't* the average player explicitly because you're new.
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