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New Dreadguard Relics?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
New Dreadguard Relics?

MantorokTwelve's Avatar


MantorokTwelve
01.03.2013 , 01:46 PM | #11
Kitru - a couple questiions.

First of all, is the agent matrix cube worth using, or is it still far outclassed by DG/EWH? What if I despise PVP and only have battlemaster and I'm really looking for an excuse to never set foot in a warzone again outside of leveling?

Second, I know for most DPS BIS is a clicky power and a proc relic, but could EWH and the proc relic be better if you still use the clicky relic right before the pull? That is, you use your power relic, equip your EWH, and then attack the boss. You get 1 use of your power relic, as opposed to 2 or 3, but you get the static increase to power for the whole fight. Obviously it wouldn't be good for fights that have burst phases like Fabricator, or Kephess the Undying, but I'm wondering if it could be useful for bosses with fewer burn phases.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.03.2013 , 04:13 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by MantorokTwelve View Post
First of all, is the agent matrix cube worth using, or is it still far outclassed by DG/EWH? What if I despise PVP and only have battlemaster and I'm really looking for an excuse to never set foot in a warzone again outside of leveling?
If you despise PvP, the Matrix Cube isn't *too* bad as a passive stat chunk. It's not optimal, but it's not going to hamstring you all that much, especially if you're not up for clicking the DG use relic.

Quote:
Second, I know for most DPS BIS is a clicky power and a proc relic, but could EWH and the proc relic be better if you still use the clicky relic right before the pull? That is, you use your power relic, equip your EWH, and then attack the boss. You get 1 use of your power relic, as opposed to 2 or 3, but you get the static increase to power for the whole fight. Obviously it wouldn't be good for fights that have burst phases like Fabricator, or Kephess the Undying, but I'm wondering if it could be useful for bosses with fewer burn phases.
It depends on the length of the fight.

The average power provided equation for the DG relic is: (47 x + 350 * 30 * (1 + x / 120)) / x; where x is the duration of the fight in seconds (I could throw down with some modulus math in there to account for only perfect divisions of the 120 sec duration, but it's not a big enough issue imo).

The average power equation for your proposed EWH + 1 DG proc is: (120 x + 350 * 25) / x; where x is the duration of the fight (I'm assuming 5 seconds of wasted uptime waiting for the tank to pull and swapping the relic out).

Throw the two of those ((47 x + 350 * 30 * (1 + x / 120)) / x = (120 x + 350 * 25) / x) into Wolfram Alpha (too lazy for algebra that can't be done in my head today) and you learn that if a fight is any longer than 120 seconds, you get more out of the DG relic. While this isn't *exactly* true in practice (the DG relic isn't providing 87.5 power averaged over 120 seconds, it's providing 350 for 30 seconds every 120 so it jumps), unless a fight is both exceptionally short *and* ends right before the proc relic comes off of CD, the DG relic is going to provide more.

Since a vast majority of Ops fights are longer than 2 minutes, it's better to just say that, no, it wouldn't be better.
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grallmate's Avatar


grallmate
01.03.2013 , 09:22 PM | #13
It is also important to remember that healing isn't about absolute maximum throughput. If a fight requires X total healing you don't need to put out x+50%. Healing is about reacting to incoming damage and keeping everyone alive.

To that end, I like one DG Clicky and one EWH Power on my Sawbones. Good constant throughput and free on demand burst when I need it. Most fights I don't need to use it but when I do, its awesome. I am against the proc ones for the reasons stated above. I lost all interest in them when I saw my Sage proc one on a CCed target.

Now, yes arguments can be made that healers who don't have to heal can add DPS and all that sort of stuff but really: use what works for you. If you want controllable burst, use 1x EWH and 1x DG clicky power relics. If you like "set and forget" power, use 2x EWH power relics.
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POPsi's Avatar


POPsi
01.04.2013 , 06:00 AM | #14
only downside to the DG relic is that to get a slight edge in overall healing you have to use it close to off CD... which may be a waste if no burst healing is needed. If you only use it for burst situations, which may not be even required, you lose in overall performance compared to WH relics. So I keep 1 on myself, and if I see that the fight requires it (I expect I need to oh-**** heal), I'll switch my WH relic for the DG... but it rarely happens.

Vugluskr's Avatar


Vugluskr
01.04.2013 , 06:30 AM | #15
Actually you lose only about 12 static bonus healing if you wear DG relic instead of EWH. This is not that much. and in return you get nice burst.

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POPsi
01.04.2013 , 09:09 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Vugluskr View Post
Actually you lose only about 12 static bonus healing if you wear DG relic instead of EWH. This is not that much. and in return you get nice burst.
true dat... both is viable, and I think in the end it comes down to personal decision. For myself, I have a rakata power adrenal for burst/oh-sht situations, and it should be enough if the team knows what it is doing.

nninjacoupe's Avatar


nninjacoupe
01.11.2013 , 05:59 AM | #17
I usually run a dg click/EWH when in my usual ops group because the throughput healing is more than enough on a team that knows the fights and the extra burst when needed makes my job very easy. I will switch out the DG for a second WH if running pug ops where everyone takes damage due to reckless/careless play style or if we are making a speed run. When running difficult content with a group that knows the fights and plays them correctly the dg goes back in. There just isn't any need for that constant static power increase of a second pvp relic when your dps don't pull aggro, stand in red circles or knock down cc'd enemies. All you are left with is tank healing and party burst.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.11.2013 , 10:42 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
It depends on the length of the fight.
So to amuse myself, I went and started playing with Wolfram Alpha a bit more and decided to get the "true" form of the given equations to determine what the actual breakpoints are. The plot itself tells a better story of it that I'm going to (each blue line represents the average power contributed per second by the relevant load out at x seconds; each blue line represents a 120 second time frame as an easy section marker), but, the basic conclusion is that, after 4 minutes, the use relic averages out with better uptime unless you're right on the edge of a CD, after 6 minutes, the use relic is universally better with the exception of a *very* tiny period of time where it's largely a break even just before the 8 minute marker, and, for anything longer than 8 minutes, the use relic is simply outright better.

The basic conclusion is that, for short fights, it can honestly be considered something of a wash: healers aren't like to use it on CD to they're almost never going to actually get the given values. For longer fights, it's going to be better over the long term if you actually use it on or close to CD. Of course, none of this calculation of average contribution is going to be all that useful if you only keep the use relic around for times when you need some burst healing: pretty much every boss in TfB has a burst healing phase of some kind at some point (Writhing Horror's, Kephess's, and TfB's burn phases; DG after the electronuke and after Force Leech expires; DDR boss after Disinfection).

It's a lot like the decision you have to make as a tank between the tanking use relics and the passive/proc ones: even if you don't use the use relics on CD every time, sometimes the one time you need the extra survivability attributed to the relic is justification enough, especially if you don't really *need* the constant benefits of the passive relic for all of the other times.
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Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
01.11.2013 , 11:52 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Maths stuff
I'll take your word for it, all I see is some lines which make no sense to me . Still gonna use 2 EWH's because it is simply easier.
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